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The biggest obstacles to our success as a country
mv_ufanisi
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2020 5:55:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 596
So I've been thinking about what are the major impediments to our take-off as a successful country and I wanted to share my thoughts and see what fellow Wazuans think are the biggest obstacles to the success of the Kenyan nation. Here is what I think:

1. A Corrupted and Unserious Media.

The Kenyan media is firmly in the pockets of politicians who pay to decide what is shown to Kenyans as the most important news of the day.

The unfortunate result is that substantive matters are not given the due attention that they deserve. So we've gotten used to day in day out headlines of "This politician said this, the other said that".

The media is also too focused on the unserious e.g. radio stations are mostly focused on talking about sex and affairs etc. This focus on what could be considered as "junk" content leaves Kenyans minds much poorer and distracted.

If Kenyan media was a person, they'd be that person who is endlessly consumed by an unimportant matter e.g. gossip, trying to bed as many as possible, etc and can't seem to concentrate for 5 minutes on important stuff.

2. Lack of Localism (A Power Vacuum between Ordinary Citizens and Top Heavy Governance)
There is a big chasm between the citizen and the control and use of state power and resources. This leads to a certain feeling of disenfranchisement among the citizens. There is too much power concentrated at the top (mostly at the hands of leaders who have little connection and interaction with the people).

In the old days, every village had its baraza or council of elders who would discuss the important problems or issues of the village then make certain decisions/actions at the village level. The gap left by the end of this social organization means that people's voices are not properly heard. We need to figure out a way to better organize ourselves from the bottom up like in the old days.

If we had proper local representation even in the cities, with the proper involvement of residents and businesses located in a small enough area that have the control of their location in major matters, we would likely have more substantive action e.g. collection of rubbish, crime reduction etc in stead of the top-down approach.

Right now as a resident of a certain neighborhood, we struggle to deal with collection of rubbish in our area, reduction of crime, repairing broken roads, water problems etc because we don't have a good way to organize ourselves. Resident Associations try to play in this space but most areas in Kenya are unable to have this level of self organization which means that we all complain about these things but don't have the collective organization to do something about it.

If there was an easier way for residents to engage with each other, there would be big improvements as citizens begin to feel empowered.

Devolution has helped reduce this problem but it has not yet solved the main problem of social organization from the bottom up. We need those village barazas to really start dealing with local issues. We also need a certain portion of our taxes to be local tax so that we have resources to do stuff at a local level.

3. Scarcity Mentality & Individualism
The following are all signs of a scarcity mentality:
a) Corruption & Hoarding Up unnecessary levels of wealth - people steal what they don't need and hoard up resources that benefit them little but would have had major collective benefit e.g. from building schools, roads and hospitals. It's a psychological illusion that many have and makes them short sighted to realize that they are harming the collective future by engaging in this problem.
b) Business people with resources seldom share those resources or invest them in society e..g through creating public benefit resources such as libraries or museums. The sharing economy e.g. Uber and Airbnb and such has shown that platforms which share value to a large number of people can create more value than if they were hoarded. The instinct of most Kenyans is to hoard whatever resources or advantage you may have even though this is not value maximizing.

4. Poor Law Enforcement
A problem associated with "Lack of Localism" and Lack of a sense of citizen ownership in the goverment is poor law enforcement. This can actually create an existential crisis for a country as it leads to more and more criminal elements getting into top levels of government over time which is likely to create a cascading effect that could lead to the takeover of a country by a Mafia like cartel. Kenya is unfortunately headed that way already. Poor law enforcement is what makes it difficult to do business, enforce business contracts, increase crime etc. Solving this problem would unlock tremendous value when people know that disputes will be heard and judged fairly and quickly and that the law enforcement will protect the rights of citizens.


mpobiz
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:21:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,111
RAILA AMOLLO ODINGA
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
aemathenge
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:37:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,356
Location: Kerugoya
amorphous
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2020 10:03:07 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/15/2019
Posts: 491
Location: planet earth
mv_ufanisi wrote:
So I've been thinking about what are the major impediments to our take-off as a successful country and I wanted to share my thoughts and see what fellow Wazuans think are the biggest obstacles to the success of the Kenyan nation. Here is what I think:

1. A Corrupted and Unserious Media.

The Kenyan media is firmly in the pockets of politicians who pay to decide what is shown to Kenyans as the most important news of the day.

The unfortunate result is that substantive matters are not given the due attention that they deserve. So we've gotten used to day in day out headlines of "This politician said this, the other said that".

The media is also too focused on the unserious e.g. radio stations are mostly focused on talking about sex and affairs etc. This focus on what could be considered as "junk" content leaves Kenyans minds much poorer and distracted.

If Kenyan media was a person, they'd be that person who is endlessly consumed by an unimportant matter e.g. gossip, trying to bed as many as possible, etc and can't seem to concentrate for 5 minutes on important stuff.

2. Lack of Localism (A Power Vacuum between Ordinary Citizens and Top Heavy Governance)
There is a big chasm between the citizen and the control and use of state power and resources. This leads to a certain feeling of disenfranchisement among the citizens. There is too much power concentrated at the top (mostly at the hands of leaders who have little connection and interaction with the people).

In the old days, every village had its baraza or council of elders who would discuss the important problems or issues of the village then make certain decisions/actions at the village level. The gap left by the end of this social organization means that people's voices are not properly heard. We need to figure out a way to better organize ourselves from the bottom up like in the old days.

If we had proper local representation even in the cities, with the proper involvement of residents and businesses located in a small enough area that have the control of their location in major matters, we would likely have more substantive action e.g. collection of rubbish, crime reduction etc in stead of the top-down approach.

Right now as a resident of a certain neighborhood, we struggle to deal with collection of rubbish in our area, reduction of crime, repairing broken roads, water problems etc because we don't have a good way to organize ourselves. Resident Associations try to play in this space but most areas in Kenya are unable to have this level of self organization which means that we all complain about these things but don't have the collective organization to do something about it.

If there was an easier way for residents to engage with each other, there would be big improvements as citizens begin to feel empowered.

Devolution has helped reduce this problem but it has not yet solved the main problem of social organization from the bottom up. We need those village barazas to really start dealing with local issues. We also need a certain portion of our taxes to be local tax so that we have resources to do stuff at a local level.

3. Scarcity Mentality & Individualism
The following are all signs of a scarcity mentality:
a) Corruption & Hoarding Up unnecessary levels of wealth - people steal what they don't need and hoard up resources that benefit them little but would have had major collective benefit e.g. from building schools, roads and hospitals. It's a psychological illusion that many have and makes them short sighted to realize that they are harming the collective future by engaging in this problem.
b) Business people with resources seldom share those resources or invest them in society e..g through creating public benefit resources such as libraries or museums. The sharing economy e.g. Uber and Airbnb and such has shown that platforms which share value to a large number of people can create more value than if they were hoarded. The instinct of most Kenyans is to hoard whatever resources or advantage you may have even though this is not value maximizing.

4. Poor Law Enforcement
A problem associated with "Lack of Localism" and Lack of a sense of citizen ownership in the goverment is poor law enforcement. This can actually create an existential crisis for a country as it leads to more and more criminal elements getting into top levels of government over time which is likely to create a cascading effect that could lead to the takeover of a country by a Mafia like cartel. Kenya is unfortunately headed that way already. Poor law enforcement is what makes it difficult to do business, enforce business contracts, increase crime etc. Solving this problem would unlock tremendous value when people know that disputes will be heard and judged fairly and quickly and that the law enforcement will protect the rights of citizens.




Excellent points. My humble additions;

- A fourth world/corrupt land sector. It amazes me that 56 years after independence, Kenya, which prides itself as the "inventor" of Mpesa and is building Konza Technopolis, cannot do a simple thing as digitising the land registries. Jameni if I was Prez I would have sacked the Lands CS on the spot, merge it with the ICT Ministry and order Mucheru to digitise the land registries within a year or else!! Digitising the registries would perhaps add 1-2% to GDP overnight by eliminating land fraud cases in the courts, making transfers efficient and easing cost of doing business by leaps and bounds. FDI would also flood in big time.

-A nation of talkers instead of a doers. When I watch KTN or NTV or any other station all I hear is mouths wide open fuaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa with lots of seemingly intellectual speeches but of zero content. I was listening to News Gang talk about BBI jana. Mindomo baggy fuaaaaa. A wasted 30 minutes of my time. 56 years on we are still talking rather than doing. If those news anchors used that 30 minutes to teach Kenyans how to plant paw paw instead of boot licking politicians, it would have been a 30 minutes better spent.

- Almost all the wealth barons are not entrepreneurs. Stolen wealth creates cargo capitalists/cartels who do not grow wealth but hoard it and bunker it abroad. Look at Moi for example. He allegedly stole half the GDP of Kenya yet which business do you remember him ever starting? Exactly.

- Jobseeker mentality. It is comical to see stories year in year out of jobless youth crying at Hilton or Jevanjee that they are waiting for sirikali or the private sector to create a job for them.
Emotions and ego are twin enemies of strategy
radiomast
#5 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2020 7:07:24 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 418
Jomo Kenyatta cursed Kenya by introducing and encouraging tribalism, corruption, land grabbing and other vices. That chap actually despised politicians who weren't thieves. He set a precedent that has proven impossible to reverse. Tribalism and corruption are two biggest impediments.

Tribalism means that people will support and vote for their own no matter how corrupt or incompetent.

It means that people cannot uplift themselves or better their lives by voting an issue based leader. We only elect tribal chiefs. The key to getting elected in Kenya is not to be a good president. The key is to build tribal blocs.

Kenya is cursed in that only people who encourage tribalism and corruption have had a chance to lead. Where would we be if we had a president like Pinto, Oginga, JM, Kaggia, Mboya, Muliro ?

We have had 57 years of independence and no good leader has taken helm. The country is cursed by its own people.

Kenyatta actually lived in London for decades so he witnessed what a properly functioning advanced country can be. he could have taken those lessons and applied them here. Instead when he came back and took power, his primary focus was to ammass as much wealth for himself.
mv_ufanisi
#6 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 10:05:53 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 596
radiomast wrote:
Jomo Kenyatta cursed Kenya by introducing and encouraging tribalism, corruption, land grabbing and other vices. That chap actually despised politicians who weren't thieves. He set a precedent that has proven impossible to reverse. Tribalism and corruption are two biggest impediments.

Tribalism means that people will support and vote for their own no matter how corrupt or incompetent.

It means that people cannot uplift themselves or better their lives by voting an issue based leader. We only elect tribal chiefs. The key to getting elected in Kenya is not to be a good president. The key is to build tribal blocs.

Kenya is cursed in that only people who encourage tribalism and corruption have had a chance to lead. Where would we be if we had a president like Pinto, Oginga, JM, Kaggia, Mboya, Muliro ?

We have had 57 years of independence and no good leader has taken helm. The country is cursed by its own people.

Kenyatta actually lived in London for decades so he witnessed what a properly functioning advanced country can be. he could have taken those lessons and applied them here. Instead when he came back and took power, his primary focus was to ammass as much wealth for himself.


Given that for the current generation, this is now water under the bridge, what can be done to overcome these vices?
wukan
#7 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 12:47:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,484
mv_ufanisi wrote:
radiomast wrote:
Jomo Kenyatta cursed Kenya by introducing and encouraging tribalism, corruption, land grabbing and other vices. That chap actually despised politicians who weren't thieves. He set a precedent that has proven impossible to reverse. Tribalism and corruption are two biggest impediments.

Tribalism means that people will support and vote for their own no matter how corrupt or incompetent.

It means that people cannot uplift themselves or better their lives by voting an issue based leader. We only elect tribal chiefs. The key to getting elected in Kenya is not to be a good president. The key is to build tribal blocs.

Kenya is cursed in that only people who encourage tribalism and corruption have had a chance to lead. Where would we be if we had a president like Pinto, Oginga, JM, Kaggia, Mboya, Muliro ?

We have had 57 years of independence and no good leader has taken helm. The country is cursed by its own people.

Kenyatta actually lived in London for decades so he witnessed what a properly functioning advanced country can be. he could have taken those lessons and applied them here. Instead when he came back and took power, his primary focus was to ammass as much wealth for himself.


Given that for the current generation, this is now water under the bridge, what can be done to overcome these vices?


History teacher failed our current generation. They made it look like the world started in 1963. All these problems have been around for centuries.

East africa region was not the most densely populated area for longest period apart from the coastal region. How were you going to develop if you didn't have people clustered together trading and exchanging ideas, goods and services?

Current generation may not even remember sometime in the late 80s you would drive 30 km in the dustbowl without seeing a single human being. Ngong was a very remote place where people disappeared back then. Places like Lamu, Turkana felt like some mythical lands. Githurai in early 90s was a gichagi no elec, no water, very few people just empty grassland as far as eye could see.

Stop blaming leaders it is only you who can uplift yourself. Work hard, produce wealth and kids you can cater for.
kaka2za
#8 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 12:47:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,023
Location: Gwitu
mv_ufanisi wrote:
So I've been thinking about what are the major impediments to our take-off as a successful country and I wanted to share my thoughts and see what fellow Wazuans think are the biggest obstacles to the success of the Kenyan nation. Here is what I think:

1. A Corrupted and Unserious Media.

The Kenyan media is firmly in the pockets of politicians who pay to decide what is shown to Kenyans as the most important news of the day.

The unfortunate result is that substantive matters are not given the due attention that they deserve. So we've gotten used to day in day out headlines of "This politician said this, the other said that".

The media is also too focused on the unserious e.g. radio stations are mostly focused on talking about sex and affairs etc. This focus on what could be considered as "junk" content leaves Kenyans minds much poorer and distracted.

If Kenyan media was a person, they'd be that person who is endlessly consumed by an unimportant matter e.g. gossip, trying to bed as many as possible, etc and can't seem to concentrate for 5 minutes on important stuff.

2. Lack of Localism (A Power Vacuum between Ordinary Citizens and Top Heavy Governance)
There is a big chasm between the citizen and the control and use of state power and resources. This leads to a certain feeling of disenfranchisement among the citizens. There is too much power concentrated at the top (mostly at the hands of leaders who have little connection and interaction with the people).

In the old days, every village had its baraza or council of elders who would discuss the important problems or issues of the village then make certain decisions/actions at the village level. The gap left by the end of this social organization means that people's voices are not properly heard. We need to figure out a way to better organize ourselves from the bottom up like in the old days.

If we had proper local representation even in the cities, with the proper involvement of residents and businesses located in a small enough area that have the control of their location in major matters, we would likely have more substantive action e.g. collection of rubbish, crime reduction etc in stead of the top-down approach.

Right now as a resident of a certain neighborhood, we struggle to deal with collection of rubbish in our area, reduction of crime, repairing broken roads, water problems etc because we don't have a good way to organize ourselves. Resident Associations try to play in this space but most areas in Kenya are unable to have this level of self organization which means that we all complain about these things but don't have the collective organization to do something about it.

If there was an easier way for residents to engage with each other, there would be big improvements as citizens begin to feel empowered.

Devolution has helped reduce this problem but it has not yet solved the main problem of social organization from the bottom up. We need those village barazas to really start dealing with local issues. We also need a certain portion of our taxes to be local tax so that we have resources to do stuff at a local level.

3. Scarcity Mentality & Individualism
The following are all signs of a scarcity mentality:
a) Corruption & Hoarding Up unnecessary levels of wealth - people steal what they don't need and hoard up resources that benefit them little but would have had major collective benefit e.g. from building schools, roads and hospitals. It's a psychological illusion that many have and makes them short sighted to realize that they are harming the collective future by engaging in this problem.
b) Business people with resources seldom share those resources or invest them in society e..g through creating public benefit resources such as libraries or museums. The sharing economy e.g. Uber and Airbnb and such has shown that platforms which share value to a large number of people can create more value than if they were hoarded. The instinct of most Kenyans is to hoard whatever resources or advantage you may have even though this is not value maximizing.

4. Poor Law Enforcement
A problem associated with "Lack of Localism" and Lack of a sense of citizen ownership in the goverment is poor law enforcement. This can actually create an existential crisis for a country as it leads to more and more criminal elements getting into top levels of government over time which is likely to create a cascading effect that could lead to the takeover of a country by a Mafia like cartel. Kenya is unfortunately headed that way already. Poor law enforcement is what makes it difficult to do business, enforce business contracts, increase crime etc. Solving this problem would unlock tremendous value when people know that disputes will be heard and judged fairly and quickly and that the law enforcement will protect the rights of citizens.





I would say fate as exemplified by the following events;
1.Jomo and Jaramogi fall out in 1960s.
2. 1982 coup attempt
3. Machakos junction accident that left Kibaki seriously injured.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
murchr
#9 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 6:06:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,853
mpobiz wrote:
RAILA AMOLLO ODINGA



d'oh! Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Short and sweet
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#10 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 9:23:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 418
mv_ufanisi wrote:


Given that for the current generation, this is now water under the bridge, what can be done to overcome these vices?


Water under the bridge?
In fact the younger generation (Those under 25) are far more corrupt and tribal than anyone. They have been bred in an era where every politician is a thief. Every government official is demanding bribes. Tender scandals. etc etc.
When I speak to the younger generation I am often shocked at how most of them see thievery and corruption as something they should engage in because everyone else does it.

And Kenyan elections today are nothing but a tribal hatefest. The elections do nothing to uplift the country other than to turn one tribe against another.

How can you call it water under the bridge yet corruption is far worse than it was say in the 60s, 70s and 80s?
radiomast
#11 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 9:25:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 418
wukan wrote:

Stop blaming leaders it is only you who can uplift yourself. Work hard, produce wealth and kids you can cater for.


Do you ever wonder why Africa remains an economic backwater?

Why is it that in 1963, Kenya and South Korea were at per in terms of GDP per capita. Yet today Korea GDP per capita is 15 times that of Kenya?
radiomast
#12 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 9:36:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 418
kaka2za wrote:


I would say fate as exemplified by the following events;
1.Jomo and Jaramogi fall out in 1960s.
2. 1982 coup attempt
3. Machakos junction accident that left Kibaki seriously injured.


It has been said many times by many people on this bored but its worth repeating. THE 1982 COUP WAS STAGE MANAGED. It was a fake coup.

Moi and General Mulinge who was the CGS knew about an impending coup as far back as 1981. But they let it happen perhaps even encouraged it to happen. Moi wanted to use to mop out the remaining Jomo Kenyatta loyalists and to an justify the ban multi-party politics which was being opposed by many especially at UoN which was a political hotbed at the time.

And thats exactly what he did. All the remaining Kenyatta era leaders like Maj Gen Kariuki, the Airforce commander, Hinga the Chief of Police and a host of senior govt officials were purged. Some like Hinga even ended up at Kamiti prison. UoN professors who were deemed too politicial were fired. Some like Micere Mugo lost their citizenship. Soon later, Section 3A which allowed for opposition
murchr
#13 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 11:01:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,853
radiomast wrote:
kaka2za wrote:


I would say fate as exemplified by the following events;
1.Jomo and Jaramogi fall out in 1960s.
2. 1982 coup attempt
3. Machakos junction accident that left Kibaki seriously injured.


It has been said many times by many people on this bored but its worth repeating. THE 1982 COUP WAS STAGE MANAGED. It was a fake coup.

Moi and General Mulinge who was the CGS knew about an impending coup as far back as 1981. But they let it happen perhaps even encouraged it to happen. Moi wanted to use to mop out the remaining Jomo Kenyatta loyalists and to an justify the ban multi-party politics which was being opposed by many especially at UoN which was a political hotbed at the time.

And thats exactly what he did. All the remaining Kenyatta era leaders like Maj Gen Kariuki, the Airforce commander, Hinga the Chief of Police and a host of senior govt officials were purged. Some like Hinga even ended up at Kamiti prison. UoN professors who were deemed too politicial were fired. Some like Micere Mugo lost their citizenship. Soon later, Section 3A which allowed for opposition



Said by who because this is the first time am hearing this theory yet in his book Enigma of Kenyan politics, Raila confessed to being involved. So who stage managed what?

Short answer please
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
mv_ufanisi
#14 Posted : Friday, October 30, 2020 11:21:10 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 596
We have a very short term emotional approach to politics. In 2007, it was Kibaki vs Raila, Kikuyu versus other Kenyan tribes led by the Luo, life or death. In 2012 it was Uhuru vs Raila, life or death, in 2017 again it was Uhuru vs Raila, life or death. In 2022, its Ruto vs Raila, life or death.

These highly emotive contests that lack in intellectual substance are the evidence of a reduction in the average national IQ. We never learn that these political contests are all about the big boys and girls. Somehow the Kenyan voter is an eternal sucker for these sideshows and can never focus on the real important stuff. a

Meanwhile, our population is burgeoning, our growing numbers of young unemployed people will end up as slaves in foreign lands such as the Middle East, Europe or the US doing manual labor. So how did we end up with such a low national IQ?
kaka2za
#15 Posted : Saturday, October 31, 2020 12:28:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,023
Location: Gwitu
radiomast wrote:
kaka2za wrote:


I would say fate as exemplified by the following events;
1.Jomo and Jaramogi fall out in 1960s.
2. 1982 coup attempt
3. Machakos junction accident that left Kibaki seriously injured.


It has been said many times by many people on this bored but its worth repeating. THE 1982 COUP WAS STAGE MANAGED. It was a fake coup.

Moi and General Mulinge who was the CGS knew about an impending coup as far back as 1981. But they let it happen perhaps even encouraged it to happen. Moi wanted to use to mop out the remaining Jomo Kenyatta loyalists and to an justify the ban multi-party politics which was being opposed by many especially at UoN which was a political hotbed at the time.

And thats exactly what he did. All the remaining Kenyatta era leaders like Maj Gen Kariuki, the Airforce commander, Hinga the Chief of Police and a host of senior govt officials were purged. Some like Hinga even ended up at Kamiti prison. UoN professors who were deemed too politicial were fired. Some like Micere Mugo lost their citizenship. Soon later, Section 3A which allowed for opposition


It is well known that the government knew about the coup and let it happen so that they could purge the undesirable.
Fact is it changed the course of Moi rule
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
radiomast
#16 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 6:13:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 418
murchr wrote:


Said by who because this is the first time am hearing this theory yet in his book Enigma of Kenyan politics, Raila confessed to being involved. So who stage managed what?

Short answer please


How was he involved ? Do you mean he supported the coup? If so thats not news. The coup plans were well known and several UoN lecturers and students were informed of the coup and supported it.

Also if he was involved then how come he was kept in detention without trial for 8 years and never found guilty?

The coup plot started as far back as 1981. And obviously Moi knew about it.

In 1981, Kenya's spy chief Kanyotu (pictured) and top soldier Gen. Mulinge became aware of plans to stage a mutiny in the military -mostly in the Air Force. Morale in some sections was low and there were allegations of tribalism.


Below is an excerpt of the book "Between Hope and Despair, 1963-2011"



From the Standard

Sometimes in March, 1982, a small yet subversive group of airmen at the Kenya Air Force Base, Nanyuki, started to plot to overthrow the Kenya government. Between March, 1982, and August 1, 1982, the group expanded rapidly in membership due to a spirited recruitment drive in every unit of the Kenya Air Force as well as in other units of the Kenya Army.

As early as May 1982, the intelligence community had already received reports that Kenya Air Force personnel were planning a coup. This is first time these reports reached Special Branch officers, famed for having their ears always on the ground.


In Mid July of 1982, General Kariuki informed Sawe and Mulinge who in turn briefed Moi on the impending coup. Kariuki asked for permission to arrest the coup plotters. Moi refused.
Conquestador
#17 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 7:38:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/17/2010
Posts: 110
Location: Nairobi
Kenya's #1 binding constraint is economic development. Itself caused by too little investments and too little output (national laziness).
Everything else is an externality of that
alma1
#18 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 7:58:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,852
Location: hapo
Kenyans love thieves.
Kenyans vote for thieves.
Kenyans don't mind being thieves.

They even steal in churches and mosques.

Sometimes you have to look at your soul to know the truth.

Kenyans have a habit of blaming everyone else other than themselves. Ohhh Laira...Ohhh Looto..

That's the problem.

I will tell you a story one day of a shingding we had with our former classmates who want to be one of the extra mpigs under BBI...You will learn you are stupid.

Especially if you are a paid mbrogger like Itumbi and Alai.

Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

murchr
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 03, 2020 8:05:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,853
radiomast wrote:
murchr wrote:


Said by who because this is the first time am hearing this theory yet in his book Enigma of Kenyan politics, Raila confessed to being involved. So who stage managed what?

Short answer please


How was he involved ? Do you mean he supported the coup? If so thats not news. The coup plans were well known and several UoN lecturers and students were informed of the coup and supported it.

Also if he was involved then how come he was kept in detention without trial for 8 years and never found guilty?

The coup plot started as far back as 1981. And obviously Moi knew about it.

In 1981, Kenya's spy chief Kanyotu (pictured) and top soldier Gen. Mulinge became aware of plans to stage a mutiny in the military -mostly in the Air Force. Morale in some sections was low and there were allegations of tribalism.


Below is an excerpt of the book "Between Hope and Despair, 1963-2011"



From the Standard

Sometimes in March, 1982, a small yet subversive group of airmen at the Kenya Air Force Base, Nanyuki, started to plot to overthrow the Kenya government. Between March, 1982, and August 1, 1982, the group expanded rapidly in membership due to a spirited recruitment drive in every unit of the Kenya Air Force as well as in other units of the Kenya Army.

As early as May 1982, the intelligence community had already received reports that Kenya Air Force personnel were planning a coup. This is first time these reports reached Special Branch officers, famed for having their ears always on the ground.


In Mid July of 1982, General Kariuki informed Sawe and Mulinge who in turn briefed Moi on the impending coup. Kariuki asked for permission to arrest the coup plotters. Moi refused.



A crime is a crime after it happens otherwise the plotters can always deny. Romours and intelligence only serve a purpose of information but that doesnt suggest that the Govt was involved.

Right now there's enough intelligence that there's an imminent terror attack in Europe but that doesnt mean that the EU govts have to stop it and if they dont then they are part of it.

So Raila was indeed part of the plotters as were many, but he did not kill or steal so he wasn't arrested. But he agreed in his book that he took part in planning.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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radiomast
#20 Posted : Wednesday, November 04, 2020 6:54:16 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 418
murchr wrote:





A crime is a crime after it happens otherwise the plotters can always deny. Romours and intelligence only serve a purpose of information but that doesnt suggest that the Govt was involved.

Right now there's enough intelligence that there's an imminent terror attack in Europe but that doesnt mean that the EU govts have to stop it and if they dont then they are part of it.

So Raila was indeed part of the plotters as were many, but he did not kill or steal so he wasn't arrested. But he agreed in his book that he took part in planning.



The bigger crime is that Moi knew about the coup for several months. Perhaps even a whole year and he let it happen anyway. All the people died because of Moi's inaction.

Moi was also wrong for banning opposition parties. When the public has no way of electing someone they want, they will resort to coups.

Finally Moi was wrong for detaining people without charges, without evidence and in the case of Prof Micere Mugo, he even withdrew her citizenship thus leaving her stateless. A gross violation of Human rights.

As I said earlier, Maj Gen Kariuki was thrown in prison even though he had done his job by informing Moi of the impending coup. Hinga the former police commissioner was also sent to Kamiti. Why? I don't know.

Not to mention the hundreds and hundreds of UoN students, some of whom died. Adungosi died only a few weeks before he was supposed to be released, killed by Moi's goons.

Furthermore, Moi sent his army goons to kill several Airforce members including those not involved in the coup.

Moi thoroughly stabbed Charles Njonjo in the back. Remember it was Njonjo who fronted Moi for the VP position in 1965 then helped him ascend to power. Then after the 1982 coup, Moi branded Njonjo a traitor and through him out of the cabinet.
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