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Reject This BBI Joke
madhaquer
#21 Posted : Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:37:26 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 273
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
murchr wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
My friends, I hear you.

But let me remind you if I may:

1. The price to be paid here is nothing compared to what we pay already, through theft and mismanagement already. At least now we might get some peace and quiet in addition.

2. If chaos comes nobody get to chose the price to pay for peace. You pay what is demanded. Kenya has approached this precipice several times already. If bribing our ravenous politicians (as indeed this is what it is) is what will guarantee our children and grand children get to have a life in Kenya, I say why not?

3. This kind of fix is not new, not even for Kenya. We had it after 2007. Unfortunately, in the excitement of Katiba crafting, we lost the principle lesson of that painful period, to wit:

"It is not about democracy. It is not even about justice. It is about 'eat and let eat."

Kizungu ingine wachia NGO.


Wacha kutafuta kazi wazua.

No MP or Presidential candidate would die because Kenyans have rejected them. Kenyans fight because of being paid to do so by these same politicians. even with 100 new senators and 1000 MPs, the losers will still kill.

Apart from that, the president wants to take aeay the independence of the judiciary to bring back Moism dah!

If you can move out of Kenya do so, or look for ways to send your money in those safe islands this is bullshit


Come srowry my friend.

Before you chock on your emotional tirades I suggest you read up on the recent history of, say, Sierra Leone, Liberia or, more recently, South Sudan. In their desperate search for peace, after the near deaths of their nations, they used similar egotistical kizungu mingi. BS, historical injustices, no so and so etc etc.

Guess what? The price they had to pay for peace was seeing their killers walk free or even placed to rule over them. Remember Foday Sankoh? Kenya, nearly went the same way recently, which you have probably forgotten already.

Leadership is not a zero sum game. Those who are too proud to see this lesson are likely to have to learn it the hard way.



Did Kenyans fight in 2013? What about 2017?

All this is a grand scheme to have certain people in politics forever. Why do people only fight in certain areas and not some? I have never heard Kaos fighting after Kalonzo's coalition looses. Kenyans are more mature politically than S.Sudanese or Sierra Leoneans we need to learn to accept the will of the people. Creating posts to accommodate a TRIBAL CHIEF MOSTLY A RICH MAN a demagogue is not a solution to poverty or peace to say the least. The way the economy is going we will be another Nigeria in the coming months



No amount of scaremongering should be tolerated.
We need to reject this bill even if 100% of the political class are behind it.
Shak
#22 Posted : Saturday, October 24, 2020 11:49:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
I hate this BBI yet somehow I'm beginning to feel that communities that previously felt excluded now have a chance to sit at the table and hence foster peace.
Lolest!
#23 Posted : Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:32:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,066
Location: Kianjokoma
Shak wrote:
I hate this BBI yet somehow I'm beginning to feel that communities that previously felt excluded now have a chance to sit at the table and hence foster peace.

Hi @ Shak

2 issues:

1. How many communities are we talking about? Max 5? Big 5? Mtaita? Mturkana? Rendille, Gabbra, Abakuria, Swahili, Maasai, Samburu, El Molo etc?

2. How are we including them? The president will appoint all the other 4 pretenders and fire them. It will be clear to all in max 3 years where power lies. & 8in the polls that follow it shall be cutthroat for that one post again- the Presidency!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
madhaquer
#24 Posted : Saturday, October 24, 2020 5:50:37 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 273
Location: Nairobi
Shak wrote:
I hate this BBI yet somehow I'm beginning to feel that communities that previously felt excluded now have a chance to sit at the table and hence foster peace.


The communities are included in the current constitution through the MCA, MP, Governor, Senator, Women Reps.
The same process of moving around the country collecting views was used. This document addresses nothing specifically different for those communities.

By the way, those communities are not the cause for lack of peace or political unrest in the country.
murchr
#25 Posted : Saturday, October 24, 2020 8:53:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,973
madhaquer wrote:
murchr wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
murchr wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
My friends, I hear you.

But let me remind you if I may:

1. The price to be paid here is nothing compared to what we pay already, through theft and mismanagement already. At least now we might get some peace and quiet in addition.

2. If chaos comes nobody get to chose the price to pay for peace. You pay what is demanded. Kenya has approached this precipice several times already. If bribing our ravenous politicians (as indeed this is what it is) is what will guarantee our children and grand children get to have a life in Kenya, I say why not?

3. This kind of fix is not new, not even for Kenya. We had it after 2007. Unfortunately, in the excitement of Katiba crafting, we lost the principle lesson of that painful period, to wit:

"It is not about democracy. It is not even about justice. It is about 'eat and let eat."

Kizungu ingine wachia NGO.


Wacha kutafuta kazi wazua.

No MP or Presidential candidate would die because Kenyans have rejected them. Kenyans fight because of being paid to do so by these same politicians. even with 100 new senators and 1000 MPs, the losers will still kill.

Apart from that, the president wants to take aeay the independence of the judiciary to bring back Moism dah!

If you can move out of Kenya do so, or look for ways to send your money in those safe islands this is bullshit


Come srowry my friend.

Before you chock on your emotional tirades I suggest you read up on the recent history of, say, Sierra Leone, Liberia or, more recently, South Sudan. In their desperate search for peace, after the near deaths of their nations, they used similar egotistical kizungu mingi. BS, historical injustices, no so and so etc etc.

Guess what? The price they had to pay for peace was seeing their killers walk free or even placed to rule over them. Remember Foday Sankoh? Kenya, nearly went the same way recently, which you have probably forgotten already.

Leadership is not a zero sum game. Those who are too proud to see this lesson are likely to have to learn it the hard way.



Did Kenyans fight in 2013? What about 2017?

All this is a grand scheme to have certain people in politics forever. Why do people only fight in certain areas and not some? I have never heard Kaos fighting after Kalonzo's coalition looses. Kenyans are more mature politically than S.Sudanese or Sierra Leoneans we need to learn to accept the will of the people. Creating posts to accommodate a TRIBAL CHIEF MOSTLY A RICH MAN a demagogue is not a solution to poverty or peace to say the least. The way the economy is going we will be another Nigeria in the coming months



No amount of scaremongering should be tolerated.
We need to reject this bill even if 100% of the political class are behind it.



YES! it should be rejected to its totality how the conversation moved from this constitution is unsustainable to we need more positions beats me. The political class is playing with the mlala hoi who is the majority.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
aemathenge
#26 Posted : Sunday, October 25, 2020 3:17:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,410
Location: Kerugoya
D a m n

Kendo Opanga is on a roll on this 25th Day of October, The Year of Our Lord, 2020.

Quote:
Some things I know and many things I do not know.

But this I know for certain:

The political changes to the constitution proposed by the Building Bridges Initiative (BBI) serve not the people, but the dominant political class.


A president who appoints a prime minister and who he could sack at whim;

a president who hires deputy prime ministers who he could fire by fiat;

a president who employs ministers he could kick out if and when he fancies.

Some things I know and some things I do not know, but this I know for certain:

BBI proposes an economic revolution, asks us to think big or 50 years down the economic development line.

But it ignores Vision 2030 whose objective remains clear, solid, explained and abundant:

transform Kenya into a middle-income country with a high quality of life for all its citizens.


Source Link: https://nation.africa/ke...ta-ii-succession-2721398
Shak
#27 Posted : Sunday, October 25, 2020 11:12:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
madhaquer wrote:
Shak wrote:
I hate this BBI yet somehow I'm beginning to feel that communities that previously felt excluded now have a chance to sit at the table and hence foster peace.


The communities are included in the current constitution through the MCA, MP, Governor, Senator, Women Reps.
The same process of moving around the country collecting views was used. This document addresses nothing specifically different for those communities.

By the way, those communities are not the cause for lack of peace or political unrest in the country.


Was just playing devil's advocate. I'm quite jaded by politics and politicians.
sqft
#28 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 10:09:17 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya


Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
Lolest!
#29 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 2:38:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,066
Location: Kianjokoma
Ruto amewasha moto Bomas
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
alma1
#30 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 2:41:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Lolest! wrote:
Ruto amewasha moto Bomas


I may agree with him on some issues...lakini, he needs to pick his fights wisely.

This is not the place to debate.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Lolest!
#31 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 3:03:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,066
Location: Kianjokoma
alma1 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Ruto amewasha moto Bomas


I may agree with him on some issues...lakini, he needs to pick his fights wisely.

This is not the place to debate.

Me thinks politically Ruto would have been better on the supporting or ambivalent sides.

As it is now, the daggers are drawn
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Gathige
#32 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 3:19:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,235
[quote=Lolest!]Ruto amewasha moto Bomas[/quote

WSR was right inside enemy teritorry, from bring booed my Millie, and still made his voice heard. The daggers are now drawn and let's hope reason will prevail.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
newfarer
#33 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 3:46:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,503
Location: Uganda
Guys we are in the middle of a pandemic.BBI is no priority now.
The tononoka secondary principal is dead.This and others are not just statistics.
Neither the supporting nor the opposing side is right now .we don't need these meetings and rallies till we are out of the pandemic.

The leaders are making the pandemic look unreal yet it's real.

Who has assured the those singing BBI this BBI that ,that they will be there on the referendum day
punda amecheka
Fyatu
#34 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 4:22:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,813
Location: Nakuru
Gathige wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Ruto amewasha moto Bomas


WSR was right inside enemy teritorry, from bring booed my Millie, and still made his voice heard. The daggers are now drawn and let's hope reason will prevail.


Allow me to be extremely pessimistic here....No reason will prevail from now onwards. The die is cast. The lines have been drawn. Hustler the scientist has finally got hold of his balls and spoken his mind kinaga ubaga. Its just a matter of time before everyone starts calculating tribal arithmetic trying to speculate who will win at the referendum.

The scientist has raised key/fundamental/critical question that was raised hapa hapa wazua...How does an expanded executive solve winner-take-all problem?

The burden is now on Uhuru/Baba axis to explain this.If they(Baba/Uhuru) manage to marshall their tribes, then BBI will pass.

Where is @FRM to bring intelligence on what is happening on the ground huko MTK?
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
famooz
#35 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 5:05:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,045
alma1 wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Ruto amewasha moto Bomas


I may agree with him on some issues...lakini, he needs to pick his fights wisely.

This is not the place to debate.

Hi!
Yake, is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Ambivalence on his side would have deflated him. I think he did extremely well, knowing he would be booed, he took a bold stand and poked holes into the bullshit that is BBI.

Meanwhile, where is Madam Martha Karau? She wasn't invited?
madhaquer
#36 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 6:14:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 273
Location: Nairobi
He has made it a RAO vs Ruto battle.
Kina MDVD and Weta chose political correctness and by so doing they are irrelevant.
Gathige
#37 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 7:04:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,235
madhaquer wrote:
He has made it a RAO vs Ruto battle.
Kina MDVD and Weta chose political correctness and by so doing they are irrelevant.



It was very embarrassing for those selectively invited to boo WSR. I don't want to imagine who it can play out when referendum campaigns starts proper and booing is translated to stones and other flying objects. Peole need to listed and debate ideas rtaher than shout at each other. WSR refused to be cowed and pressed on.


The best wat is to build conssus like they did at Senate. Shouting has never been a way to reslove a dispute.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
tinker
#38 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2020 9:40:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 447
Location: Nairobi
Shenzi, shenzi sana.
I liked how 'Elder' Atwoli concluded his speech.
....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
sqft
#39 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2020 12:40:15 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
Gathige wrote:
madhaquer wrote:
He has made it a RAO vs Ruto battle.
Kina MDVD and Weta chose political correctness and by so doing they are irrelevant.



It was very embarrassing for those selectively invited to boo WSR. I don't want to imagine who it can play out when referendum campaigns starts proper and booing is translated to stones and other flying objects. Peole need to listed and debate ideas rtaher than shout at each other. WSR refused to be cowed and pressed on.


The best wat is to build conssus like they did at Senate. Shouting has never been a way to reslove a dispute.


So people were selectively invited to heckle him? Laughing out loudly He brought it to himself by bringing upus to the event. There were opportunities for him to present his views before haji team and there will be other opportunities later after people have read the document. Sio kwenda kujifanya slay queen huko bomas like he did. As murathe has said in the past, the guy has been on probation and has fallen short of expectations.

Also the guy has never supported any referendum - 2005, 2010, and now bbi so his current tantrums are expected.
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
Jump-steady
#40 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2020 1:31:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 1,098
The wiper leader saw nothing wrong with the document. smile
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