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Huduma Namba Je Una yako?
tycho
#141 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 6:02:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
@Murchr, I am just a simple Kenyan who has never even desired to live in another country or continent. But don't use your speculation to divert from the main issue(s).

The main issue in this context is: the origin of the SSN and intention for it differs greatly from what we have here. Or rather if the aim of GoK is to track taxation among citizens then we can now know why coercion and deception have been used to goad people to register.

For a country whose economy is held by the informal sector, and given the characteristics of this sector, I wonder how valid and reliable the information provided can be.
murchr
#142 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 6:17:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 14,727
tycho wrote:
@Murchr, I am just a simple Kenyan who has never even desired to live in another country or continent. But don't use your speculation to divert from the main issue(s).

The main issue in this context is: the origin of the SSN and intention for it differs greatly from what we have here. Or rather if the aim of GoK is to track taxation among citizens then we can now know why coercion and deception have been used to goad people to register.

For a country whose economy is held by the informal sector, and given the characteristics of this sector, I wonder how valid and reliable the information provided can be.



Your cut and paste thinking mentality is hindering your thought process. The origin of SSN is irrelevant. The motivations may be different but the benefits it provides may be beneficial to Kenyans.

Deportation orders of foreigners who have expired and unmatched work permits are out.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
tycho
#143 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 6:28:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Murchr, I am just a simple Kenyan who has never even desired to live in another country or continent. But don't use your speculation to divert from the main issue(s).

The main issue in this context is: the origin of the SSN and intention for it differs greatly from what we have here. Or rather if the aim of GoK is to track taxation among citizens then we can now know why coercion and deception have been used to goad people to register.

For a country whose economy is held by the informal sector, and given the characteristics of this sector, I wonder how valid and reliable the information provided can be.



Your cut and paste thinking mentality is hindering your thought process. The origin of SSN is irrelevant. The motivations may be different but the benefits it provides may be beneficial to Kenyans.

Deportation orders of foreigners who have expired and unmatched work permits are out.


Okay, so the huduma number is an example of an SSN with different motivations. What are these motivations and what are some of the benefits? I will try to be as open minded as possible as you educate me on this matter.

I will also appreciate if you make me understand why other Kenyans have been coerced into a beneficial process without offering them this education that you are to provide to me.
T-Bag
#144 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 8:13:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/25/2008
Posts: 412
Crony Capitalism and State Capture 2: Documents Reveal the Kenyatta Family’s Plans to Take over Lending to SMEs

Read more at: https://www.theeastafric...e-over-lending-to-smes/
E Review.

Food for thought by Dr. Daudi Ndii
I AM trust in GOD, I AM belief in THYSELF
tycho
#145 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:46:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
Well designed systems can be represented using UML diagrams and one diagram that can help us understand this number is a use case diagram that can be translated into common language. I think that can be helpful in helping slow learners like me to see how getting this number is of advantage.

One use case is for lost ID replacement. How does the use case diagram for a pre- huduma number case differ from a post huduma number case, in the context of a huduma center?
tycho
#146 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:17:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
Here's an interesting link on the huduma no. http://www.klrc.go.ke/in...xt-for-the-huduma-namba

An area of advantage could be on criminal investigations. Say the police get finger prints, scan them and search for corresponding print on the NIIMS platform. But criminals will increase forensic awareness and the marginal effect is little.

Another possible advantage is that you get your ID at the pressing of a button, like you say 'Print' and you walk away with your new ID? Or ID cards are being phased out?

On the other hand, data protection mechanisms mentioned are hopeless. They assume that fines and threats of imprisonment are effective deterrents, but life is more complicated than that.

Government usage of the NIIMS data is also suspect. Why does the government need citizens profiles to serve them? What kinds of planning is the government entitled to do for her citizens? How realistic can such plans be?

Initial ideas as presented in https://www.kenyans.co.k...gistration-portal?amp=1 show some serious ambitions and intention.
tycho
#147 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:41:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
System assumptions are that ID details match with birth registration and that educational and professional details are true without verification.

Taxation and taxation based details still leave much to be desired, even if there was concerted effort to formalize all businesses.

I'm struggling to see how NIIMS will be useful for government leave alone for the common citizens.

But resisting may be tough. Tycho may just be crushed by a white elephant, while conceding leaves him vulnerable and at a disadvantage.Sad d'oh!

What to do?
deadpoet
#148 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:43:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/27/2006
Posts: 421
I had the misfortune of applying for this thing on Saturday. Things like KRA PIN, NSSF, NHIF, and birth certificates that were indicated on the form were not required for registration. I guess those things will be filled in later? who knows. As for your address, you could indicate any location you wanted. No need for verification. With these missing details, what was the whole point?

Only the biometric data was captured. On top of it all, no information about when (if?) the cards will be ready was provided.
FRM2011
#149 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:40:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,358

I once accompanied a friend searching for his missing younger brother. From one police station to the next, hospitals, city morgue.

After three days, a friendly cop called a colleague on phone who remembered they had collected a body (victim of hit-and-run) along jogoo road. No documents found on the body. With the new info we were back to the city morgue. A horrifying experience but a positive ID was done.

Last month, the traffic boss in muranga sent out an appeal because nobody had stepped forward to claim the body of a woman who had died in an accident three months prior.

Chances are, the family has reported a missing person in a different police station.

I also hear 8 bodies have so far been retrieved from the Nairobi river during the on-going clean up.

If I were in the huduma team, this would be my main selling point. Helping identify bodies in such cases. I am sure Kenyans wouldn't mind providing DNA for such benign objectives.

But jubilee doesn't think along the lines of how to help Kenyans. It comes down to how much they can steal from us.

ION, three years ago, the president signed the coroner's bill into law. Every county was supposed to have a coroner's office to investigate every case of un-natural death. This would include deaths in the hands of the police.
The above cases would have landed in the hands of a medical examiner in the coroner's office who would make life easier for distressed families. I imagine a DNA profile of every unidentified body. Matched to the families of those looking for their missing loved ones.

In case you are wondering, we haven't funded the coroner's office because we don't have money. The little we had went to Huduma registration.
tycho
#150 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 3:58:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
I have a hypothesis as to why citizens were coerced and tricked into this thing.

Gok had assumed that it could force all people to register by law, but when the courts differed there was risk of breach of contracts that could probably be damaging.

So it was decided that the exercise should continue even if only as a sham ...

kaka2za
#151 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:45:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 3,514
Location: Gwitu
FRM2011 wrote:

I once accompanied a friend searching for his missing younger brother. From one police station to the next, hospitals, city morgue.

After three days, a friendly cop called a colleague on phone who remembered they had collected a body (victim of hit-and-run) along jogoo road. No documents found on the body. With the new info we were back to the city morgue. A horrifying experience but a positive ID was done.

Last month, the traffic boss in muranga sent out an appeal because nobody had stepped forward to claim the body of a woman who had died in an accident three months prior.

Chances are, the family has reported a missing person in a different police station.

I also hear 8 bodies have so far been retrieved from the Nairobi river during the on-going clean up.

If I were in the huduma team, this would be my main selling point. Helping identify bodies in such cases. I am sure Kenyans wouldn't mind providing DNA for such benign objectives.

But jubilee doesn't think along the lines of how to help Kenyans. It comes down to how much they can steal from us.

ION, three years ago, the president signed the coroner's bill into law. Every county was supposed to have a coroner's office to investigate every case of un-natural death. This would include deaths in the hands of the police.
The above cases would have landed in the hands of a medical examiner in the coroner's office who would make life easier for distressed families. I imagine a DNA profile of every unidentified body. Matched to the families of those looking for their missing loved ones.

In case you are wondering, we haven't funded the coroner's office because we don't have money. The little we had went to Huduma registration.


All this talk is about death!!d'oh! Nizike ningali hai.
tycho
#152 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 10:54:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
So yesterday after my hypothesis I went to meet someone, it was late and I thought I had escaped the huduma time pressure. So I started the huduma topic hoping I could hear a 'no'. Kumbe I was trapping myself. Things unfolded fast and I discovered that my resistance was being met with a frown from the lady of the house.

So, I succumbed to it. That's the sad news I am breaking to myself. How can women be so powerful?

Anyway, I had remembered Lasker's idea that all positions have hidden secrets. And who am I to question my karma?
wukan
#153 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 11:30:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,150
tycho wrote:
I have a hypothesis as to why citizens were coerced and tricked into this thing.

Gok had assumed that it could force all people to register by law, but when the courts differed there was risk of breach of contracts that could probably be damaging.

So it was decided that the exercise should continue even if only as a sham ...



My hypothesis is that citizens registered for Huduma for the simple reason they always want a record that they existed in the world. GoK did not have to force people to register but that urge to leave an official mark or record that you existed in some govt records was sufficient motivation. Same reason why we like to be counted during census. In the UK you can trace the family tree using the govt records.

Those resisting are the ones who want the right to be forgotten.
tycho
#154 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 12:14:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,484
Location: Nairobi
wukan wrote:
tycho wrote:
I have a hypothesis as to why citizens were coerced and tricked into this thing.

Gok had assumed that it could force all people to register by law, but when the courts differed there was risk of breach of contracts that could probably be damaging.

So it was decided that the exercise should continue even if only as a sham ...



My hypothesis is that citizens registered for Huduma for the simple reason they always want a record that they existed in the world. GoK did not have to force people to register but that urge to leave an official mark or record that you existed in some govt records was sufficient motivation. Same reason why we like to be counted during census. In the UK you can trace the family tree using the govt records.

Those resisting are the ones who want the right to be forgotten.


When I was born, my mother called me 'the forgotten one'. I am not surprised that may have been my secret goad.
Pedes
#155 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 2:01:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/30/2013
Posts: 652
deadpoet wrote:
I had the misfortune of applying for this thing on Saturday. Things like KRA PIN, NSSF, NHIF, and birth certificates that were indicated on the form were not required for registration. I guess those things will be filled in later? who knows. As for your address, you could indicate any location you wanted. No need for verification. With these missing details, what was the whole point?

Only the biometric data was captured. On top of it all, no information about when (if?) the cards will be ready was provided.


This is exercise seems to be a clean up of the id system. The same identification has been done to police, civil servants by the government.
If you stay ready, no need to get ready.
hardwood
#156 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 3:22:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,162
Location: Tuthu, Metumi
Sonko launches his own huduma namba in city county to weed out ghost workers and cartels who impersonate as county staff.


FRM2011
#157 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 7:39:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,358
Matiangi has finally published a bill that will make huduma number replace the ID as the primary identification document.
It's actually a criminal offence not to have one.

It's still early days since it has to go through public participation before the mandatory readings in parliament.

With the hand-shake, the bill will no doubt sail through.

Who wants to weigh in on the bigger picture (census, future elections).

I am in several whatsapp and telegram groups full of politicians and political activists. The theories I am reading there are too wild I can't share here.
kingfisher
#158 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 10:20:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,788
2012 wrote:
tycho wrote:
murchr wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Murchr, yesterday at around 8pm I saw a crowd gathered at some chemist, and I suspected it was about this huduma number and upon inquiry I confirmed that to be the case. Later I gathered that each person was parting with 100 shillings for the service of filling the form!

Today in the middle of last minute rush I overheard someone saying how he spent 200 shillings to bribe the clerks to get the service.

My daughter called to persuade me to take this number so that I could be able to call her otherwise the earlier threat would be carried out!

Others have falsified information like education level or the home county details etc.

Surely @Murchr what have you done to God's people, and to what end have you terrified the masses to participate in an optional exercise?

What is this next phase you are talking about, and is it ethical?


Those who pay bribes do it knowing it's wrong and criminal.

Those who are taking the number want it for future use, its going to be very cumbersome later on if you and your dependants get education, hospital services from govt.


Paying of bribes, whether known to be wrong or not is a matter of power relation where the payer is threatened with a consequence. Is that threat the 'cumbersome' delivery of services where there is no absolute deadline?

Besides, the data base can no longer be deemed truthful. If one can invite the clerks for tea while registering, how can we know that ghost citizens haven't been added to the register?

Next time we will be told that @2012 doesn't have to use a voter ID and that's when we'll know of how rigging has gone tech...



Huduma number will be used in the next elections. You will be told to register as a voter or use your Huduma card since all your details are captured anyway. So obviously the people with Huduma will not need to register and that will be the beginning of the real reason for the Huduma card.


I think the biggest problem with these arguments is that we are only equating huduma to ID (over 18yrs). But we know even toddlers are being issued with huduma numbers, so what does it tell us coz not everyone with an huduma number will be a voter (age limit). So what's the bigger picture? Me I don't know!
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
murchr
#159 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 5:55:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 14,727
kingfisher wrote:
2012 wrote:
tycho wrote:
murchr wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Murchr, yesterday at around 8pm I saw a crowd gathered at some chemist, and I suspected it was about this huduma number and upon inquiry I confirmed that to be the case. Later I gathered that each person was parting with 100 shillings for the service of filling the form!

Today in the middle of last minute rush I overheard someone saying how he spent 200 shillings to bribe the clerks to get the service.

My daughter called to persuade me to take this number so that I could be able to call her otherwise the earlier threat would be carried out!

Others have falsified information like education level or the home county details etc.

Surely @Murchr what have you done to God's people, and to what end have you terrified the masses to participate in an optional exercise?

What is this next phase you are talking about, and is it ethical?


Those who pay bribes do it knowing it's wrong and criminal.

Those who are taking the number want it for future use, its going to be very cumbersome later on if you and your dependants get education, hospital services from govt.


Paying of bribes, whether known to be wrong or not is a matter of power relation where the payer is threatened with a consequence. Is that threat the 'cumbersome' delivery of services where there is no absolute deadline?

Besides, the data base can no longer be deemed truthful. If one can invite the clerks for tea while registering, how can we know that ghost citizens haven't been added to the register?

Next time we will be told that @2012 doesn't have to use a voter ID and that's when we'll know of how rigging has gone tech...



Huduma number will be used in the next elections. You will be told to register as a voter or use your Huduma card since all your details are captured anyway. So obviously the people with Huduma will not need to register and that will be the beginning of the real reason for the Huduma card.


I think the biggest problem with these arguments is that we are only equating huduma to ID (over 18yrs). But we know even toddlers are being issued with huduma numbers, so what does it tell us coz not everyone with an huduma number will be a voter (age limit). So what's the bigger picture? Me I don't know!



Do not listen to the media as they are only interested in getting headlines and creating a show.


Huduma number will not replace the ID.

Everyone born in Kenya or wants to a resident of KE will need one.

Let me try to explain by following a child named Joe born in 1/1/2020

After birth Joe will be issued with a birth certificate & a Huduma profile is created for him to include birth cert records, NHIF, number.

If for any reason Joe dies at birth he'll get a death certificate and records updated on huduma profile.

Now if Joe survives to reach 6 His huduma profile gets updated to include a NEMIS number.

Once he reaches age 18, his huduma profile gets updated to include an ID/Drivers License


Assuming he gets employment, his profile is updated to indicate that he is now a tax payer and if he's saving for retirement, his NSSF profile is added.

Banks and mobile phone companies will also require this profile to open accounts and issue simcards

If he chooses to marry his records will be updated to indicate his wife's names and huduma details if she's Kenyan. If he marries a foreigner, the foreigner becomes eligible to acquire a Huduma profile.

Once he gets children, his this gets updated too, and their profiles are built etc.

If he so wishes to travel, his huduma profile will be used to get a passport.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
kingfisher
#160 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 5:59:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,788
murchr wrote:
kingfisher wrote:
2012 wrote:
tycho wrote:
murchr wrote:
tycho wrote:
@Murchr, yesterday at around 8pm I saw a crowd gathered at some chemist, and I suspected it was about this huduma number and upon inquiry I confirmed that to be the case. Later I gathered that each person was parting with 100 shillings for the service of filling the form!

Today in the middle of last minute rush I overheard someone saying how he spent 200 shillings to bribe the clerks to get the service.

My daughter called to persuade me to take this number so that I could be able to call her otherwise the earlier threat would be carried out!

Others have falsified information like education level or the home county details etc.

Surely @Murchr what have you done to God's people, and to what end have you terrified the masses to participate in an optional exercise?

What is this next phase you are talking about, and is it ethical?


Those who pay bribes do it knowing it's wrong and criminal.

Those who are taking the number want it for future use, its going to be very cumbersome later on if you and your dependants get education, hospital services from govt.


Paying of bribes, whether known to be wrong or not is a matter of power relation where the payer is threatened with a consequence. Is that threat the 'cumbersome' delivery of services where there is no absolute deadline?

Besides, the data base can no longer be deemed truthful. If one can invite the clerks for tea while registering, how can we know that ghost citizens haven't been added to the register?

Next time we will be told that @2012 doesn't have to use a voter ID and that's when we'll know of how rigging has gone tech...



Huduma number will be used in the next elections. You will be told to register as a voter or use your Huduma card since all your details are captured anyway. So obviously the people with Huduma will not need to register and that will be the beginning of the real reason for the Huduma card.


I think the biggest problem with these arguments is that we are only equating huduma to ID (over 18yrs). But we know even toddlers are being issued with huduma numbers, so what does it tell us coz not everyone with an huduma number will be a voter (age limit). So what's the bigger picture? Me I don't know!



Do not listen to the media as they are only interested in getting headlines and creating a show.


Huduma number will not replace the ID.

Everyone born in Kenya or wants to a resident of KE will need one.

Let me try to explain by following a child named Joe born in 1/1/2020

After birth Joe will be issued with a birth certificate & a Huduma profile is created for him to include birth cert records, NHIF, number.

If for any reason Joe dies at birth he'll get a death certificate and records updated on huduma profile.

Now if Joe survives to reach 6 His huduma profile gets updated to include a NEMIS number.

Once he reaches age 18, his huduma profile gets updated to include an ID/Drivers License


Assuming he gets employment, his profile is updated to indicate that he is now a tax payer and if he's saving for retirement, his NSSF profile is added.

Banks and mobile phone companies will also require this profile to open accounts and issue simcards

If he chooses to marry his records will be updated to indicate his wife's names and huduma details if she's Kenyan. If he marries a foreigner, the foreigner becomes eligible to acquire a Huduma profile.

Once he gets children, his this gets updated too, and their profiles are built etc.

If he so wishes to travel, his huduma profile will be used to get a passport.


Great many thanks.
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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