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Laikipia to float first county bond
MugundaMan
#1 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 9:31:47 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 1,000
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
https://www.businessdail...2578-11n5wjm/index.html

Any takers?
With the way the counties have been uniformly (mis)managed since they came into effect, I would not touch any county bond even with a ten foot pole! Hata kama they paid 25% interest p.a. I do not think this is a good idea. Pretty soon you will start hearing of county bankruptcies with the bond investors left holding the bag, given most counties have no capacity to raise enough revenue to cover their basic recurrent expenditures let alone the development end of things.
"The best investment on earth is earth" **Target 1000**
maka
#2 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 9:35:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 10,801
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/counties/Laikipia-set-to-float-first-Sh5bn-county-bond/4003142-4852578-11n5wjm/index.html

Any takers?
With the way the counties have been uniformly (mis)managed since they came into effect, I would not touch any county bond even with a ten foot pole! I do not think this is a good idea. Pretty soon you will start hearing of county bankruptcies with the bond investors left holding the bag.


Merge it with our bond discussions... Ummmh id only buy it if its backed by NDO in case of a default...
possunt quia posse videntur
MugundaMan
#3 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 9:37:03 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 1,000
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
maka wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/counties/Laikipia-set-to-float-first-Sh5bn-county-bond/4003142-4852578-11n5wjm/index.html

Any takers?
With the way the counties have been uniformly (mis)managed since they came into effect, I would not touch any county bond even with a ten foot pole! I do not think this is a good idea. Pretty soon you will start hearing of county bankruptcies with the bond investors left holding the bag.


Merge it with our bond discussions... Ummmh id only buy it if its backed by NDO in case of a default...



Nooooo please. That will imperil all our NDO holdings in case the county bonds go South Laughing out loudly. These should be handled separately and collateralized by county assets IMHO.
"The best investment on earth is earth" **Target 1000**
maka
#4 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 9:42:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 10,801
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
maka wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/counties/Laikipia-set-to-float-first-Sh5bn-county-bond/4003142-4852578-11n5wjm/index.html

Any takers?
With the way the counties have been uniformly (mis)managed since they came into effect, I would not touch any county bond even with a ten foot pole! I do not think this is a good idea. Pretty soon you will start hearing of county bankruptcies with the bond investors left holding the bag.


Merge it with our bond discussions... Ummmh id only buy it if its backed by NDO in case of a default...



Nooooo please. That will imperil all our NDO holdings in case the county bonds go South Laughing out loudly. These should be handled separately and collateralized by county assets IMHO.



Wouldn't touch it... If the National Govt can give 11.95% net what should the county govt give? 15%... The structure of the bond will be very important...

Look at Corporate bonds at the NSE dead kabisa it will take eons to salvage that... They need to be careful with this if it fails as the first one subsequent issues will lack buyers...

Let me add this... I forgot we are in Kenya wouldnt be surprised if some fund managers get their palms greased and buy truck loads of it... Rem Nakumatt's CP... AKS said he was sitted with some FMs during a function and almost all of them had that paper...

Chase bank bond....Sad ?
possunt quia posse videntur
alma1
#5 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 9:46:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,201
Location: hapo
I support County Bonds...How are they supposed to develop?

With 47 counties, you have a chance to vote with your pocket. The best governed like Kivuthas and Ngilu get all the money.

Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
maka
#6 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 9:48:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 10,801
Location: Nairobi
alma1 wrote:
I support County Bonds...How are they supposed to develop?

With 47 counties, you have a chance to vote with your pocket. The best governed like Kivuthas and Ngilu get all the money.




Thats true @Alma1 it will be the easiest way for counties to develop faster... Brilliant idea... but now when it comes to our governors hapo ndio shida inaanzia...

possunt quia posse videntur
alma1
#7 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 10:11:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,201
Location: hapo
maka wrote:
alma1 wrote:
I support County Bonds...How are they supposed to develop?

With 47 counties, you have a chance to vote with your pocket. The best governed like Kivuthas and Ngilu get all the money.




Thats true @Alma1 it will be the easiest way for counties to develop faster... Brilliant idea... but now when it comes to our governors hapo ndio shida inaanzia...



It will be up to the voters to decide to vote for babayao or Ngilu...We can't help them get from the gutters of stupid voting..

For the counties that think development first, then things shall be great...

So we can now have rating agencies like everywhere else in the world. Where properly managed bonds get better ratings.

The wheelbarrow buying counties get stuck on stupid. Stupid is as you vote.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?
FRM2011
#8 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 10:14:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,180
Why attempt to run when you can't crawl ?

None of the 47 counties bothers with observing the PFM act. Why would any sane person give such a person money.

Today, an LPO issued by a county government is a useless piece of paper. Yet with all other government offices including cdf, the lpo is only issued after all boxes are checked. Was it in the procurement plan ? Was it in the budget ? Have the funds been availed ? Have the funds for this specific lpo been approved and entered in the cashbook ?

Only then can an lpo be issued. You will never have an issue of pending bills with cdf. Not because they are angels, but because the observe the law. All counties disregard the pfm with no consequences.
jmbada
#9 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 10:33:10 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/1/2011
Posts: 247
FRM2011 wrote:
Why attempt to run when you can't crawl ?

None of the 47 counties bothers with observing the PFM act. Why would any sane person give such a person money.

Today, an LPO issued by a county government is a useless piece of paper. Yet with all other government offices including cdf, the lpo is only issued after all boxes are checked. Was it in the procurement plan ? Was it in the budget ? Have the funds been availed ? Have the funds for this specific lpo been approved and entered in the cashbook ?

Only then can an lpo be issued. You will never have an issue of pending bills with cdf. Not because they are angels, but because the observe the law. All counties disregard the pfm with no consequences.

How is this even debatable? Would not touch a County bond EVER! They can't even waive the tax without explicit authority from KRA! Which will either not be forthcoming or may be overturned 1 or 2 years down the line.
Angelica _ann
#10 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 10:48:44 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 9,709
What happens in change of guard at the county level?
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
muandiwambeu
#11 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 12:32:08 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,024
Angelica _ann wrote:
What happens in change of guard at the county level?

You go drying, ama.... Uendee Mali yako kwa mwenye ulipea🤗🤔
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
Ericsson
#12 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 1:02:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 5,875
Location: NAIROBI
Governor with a lot of PR,yet to see what he has done so far in the 1 year he has been in office
jmbada
#13 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 1:07:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/1/2011
Posts: 247
Ericsson wrote:
Governor with a lot of PR,yet to see what he has done so far in the 1 year he has been in office

This will be like Anglo Leasing Debt. Investors will be paid eventually, but after 10-15byears in the courts.
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