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Centum half year result 2019/2020
VituVingiSana
#21 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 6:40:42 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 16,581
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
littledove wrote:
key highlights
- Operating profit is up 49% from HY19 to KShs. 1.4 billion
-profit was driven by the gains on disposal (almasi 2.64b) and impairment provision(amu power2.3b), primarily in Amu Power
The provision for Amu Power of KShs. 2.1b is not a write-off but a provision given the uncertainties
-Our goal is to create value and keep the
@CentumPLC balance sheet debt free.ceo
Our objective is to be debt free by June 2020
We would expect no more long term debt at Centum level
-@SidianBank's performance has improved post rate cap and shows significant progress in driving return to profit"
-In the real estate sector, 1,316 units are under construction and 827 of those have already been pre sold.
The sales value of the pre sold units is KShs. 6.05 billion.



Paid for fully or deposit manenos - asking for a friend.

Neither.
The deposits or downpayment received totals 1.3bn (22%) so far. Full payment expected upon delivery of the units next year. Most buyers pay on a payment plan i.e. a monthly payment. The 1.3bn (deposits) should have increased by March 2020. Of the 6bn in sales, some will drop out as happens in many large real estate projects "hopefully" replaced by other sales.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#22 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2019 6:47:12 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 16,581
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
littledove wrote:
sparkly wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Horton wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
sparkly wrote:
[quote=muganda]Curiously:
Consolidated income statement +226%
Company income statement -273%

Gains on disposal of Almasi 2.6bn
Writedown on Amu Power -2.3bn

Net Asset Value per share down 4%



Centum is selling good assets to cover for losses from their risky investments.

People shouldn't be left dancing when the music stops.

That's not why they sold Almasi but they got a good price. The total gain was 18.6bn. The realized less unrealized gain = 2.6bn
It's a good move to provide for Amu given it is almost dead.


By that logic...BRK should be selling Coca Cola they bought at $2.45 and sold to help out Dexter or Tesco. That would be throwing good money after bad. Almasi has done well for Centum but they really aren’t the contrarian investors they want everyone to believe. The economy is on the down. It’s now that we we will see who has been swimming naked as the waves recede

Let's break it down.

Dexter - If I recall, was bought for shares not using debt so there is no need to sell an asset to repay any loan/s due for Dexter. I think BRK has taken provisions/impairments on Dexter. Why do you think BRK needs to help Dexter?
Tesco - The shares were sold and loss was booked. Why do you think BRK needs to help Tesco when it is not a subsidiary?

Coke - There is a huge capital gains liability upon the sale of Coke shares. The reinvestment has to provide similar ROI to holding Coke. The sale of such a huge stake could depress prices unless BRK can find a large enough buyer at the right price.


U digress. We are talking about Centum comparing their selling of almasi to rejuvenate Amu (profit making entity to help out a crappy investment)
I kif up.


Centum says "don't look at the cashflows,look at NAV".

Now the NAV is eroded by 4%.
Real estate is a struggling, Sidian is struggling, Amu is written off (oh provided for), King Beverages sold at a loss. Old faithful investments like Almasi, KWAL, GM sold off.


@VVS you better read the signs that tough economic times are catching up with Centum and adjust accordingly.



Atleast they will be debt free, between how is two rivers performing?


They got 6.5B from Nedbank 4 months ago.

IMO selling Almasi and other solid assets is not to clear debt but to cover losses on dubious investments. [/quote ] The Nedbank loan was used to refinance the Stanbic SA loan. It is either on TRLC's or TRDL's books of which Centum owns 58%. It is probably non-recourse.

IMHO, you are wrong but that's what it is. That's why it is a market.
There was a loss of Fair Value with Kings and Amu. These were provided for. One-off losses.
Akiira may need cash for further development OR a provision for a "dead/suspended" project.

Centum has a lot of cash which could be used to settle the Corporate Bond coming up for repayment in 2020.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#23 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2019 10:29:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,673
Location: Nairobi
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Ericsson
#24 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2019 11:21:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 7,718
Location: NAIROBI
sparkly wrote:
muganda wrote:
Curiously:
Consolidated income statement +226%
Company income statement -273%

Gains on disposal of Almasi 2.6bn
Writedown on Amu Power -2.3bn

Net Asset Value per share down 4%



Centum is selling good assets to cover for losses from their risky investments.

People shouldn't be left dancing when the music stops.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
watesh
#25 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2019 11:39:55 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/10/2014
Posts: 759
Location: Kenya
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.


Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.
VituVingiSana
#26 Posted : Friday, November 29, 2019 5:20:25 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 16,581
Location: Nairobi
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.

Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.
So are you in or out? Laughing out loudly
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#27 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 12:24:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,673
Location: Nairobi
Ericsson wrote:
sparkly wrote:
muganda wrote:
Curiously:
Consolidated income statement +226%
Company income statement -273%

Gains on disposal of Almasi 2.6bn
Writedown on Amu Power -2.3bn

Net Asset Value per share down 4%



Centum is selling good assets to cover for losses from their risky investments.

People shouldn't be left dancing when the music stops.

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly


NAV per share has dropped from Kshs79 to kshs75 and current share price is kshs29. Not sure that is a cause for concern.
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
guru267
#28 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 12:26:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,673
Location: Nairobi
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.


Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.


What's wrong with this though? Shouldn't the share price reflect the company's book value 1:1 at the very least?
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
watesh
#29 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 1:43:56 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/10/2014
Posts: 759
Location: Kenya
VituVingiSana wrote:
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.

Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.
So are you in or out? Laughing out loudly


I am buying so as to sell to them in the buyback program. Easy profit
watesh
#30 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 2:02:04 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/10/2014
Posts: 759
Location: Kenya
guru267 wrote:
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.


Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.


What's wrong with this though? Shouldn't the share price reflect the company's book value 1:1 at the very least?


Waste of cash. Their business doesn't generate cash that fast since land sales take longer to close. Instead of deploying that cash is buying back stocks in the stock market, invest in other higher return projects. CEO said most of his big investors/shareholders are there for long term ie minimum 10 years so why worry about the share price now yet none of the huge shareholders are willing to exit anytime soon. The share price will catch up to the NAV once the investor sentiments around the real estate sector become more positive. Just use the money for other investments and not artificially propping up the share price.
VituVingiSana
#31 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 11:03:12 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 16,581
Location: Nairobi
watesh wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.

Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.
So are you in or out? Laughing out loudly


I am buying so as to sell to them in the buyback program. Easy profit
Applause Applause Applause
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#32 Posted : Sunday, December 01, 2019 11:06:42 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 16,581
Location: Nairobi
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.


Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.


What's wrong with this though? Shouldn't the share price reflect the company's book value 1:1 at the very least?


Waste of cash. Their business doesn't generate cash that fast since land sales take longer to close. Instead of deploying that cash is buying back stocks in the stock market, invest in other higher return projects. CEO said most of his big investors/shareholders are there for long term ie minimum 10 years so why worry about the share price now yet none of the huge shareholders are willing to exit anytime soon. The share price will catch up to the NAV once the investor sentiments around the real estate sector become more positive. Just use the money for other investments and not artificially propping up the share price.

Applause Applause Applause
If the returns are higher for shareholders from new projects vs share buybacks then Centum should invest in new projects.
I like the long-term focus of folks in Centum. Mworia is still young and can easily stay on for another 10 years.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Wakanyugi
#33 Posted : Monday, December 02, 2019 8:09:16 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,582
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
watesh wrote:
guru267 wrote:
A few years ago Kirubi valued Centum shares at Kshs 100. I suspect there is significant pressure on the management to undertake some form of corporate action at FY2020 to unlock at least some of this value.


Hence the whole stock buy back story to manipulate the stock price. Centum will buy the stock at overpriced values so as to decrease stock liquidity and lock the price to somewhere near their valuation so as to please some of their big investors.


What's wrong with this though? Shouldn't the share price reflect the company's book value 1:1 at the very least?


Waste of cash. Their business doesn't generate cash that fast since land sales take longer to close. Instead of deploying that cash is buying back stocks in the stock market, invest in other higher return projects. CEO said most of his big investors/shareholders are there for long term ie minimum 10 years so why worry about the share price now yet none of the huge shareholders are willing to exit anytime soon. The share price will catch up to the NAV once the investor sentiments around the real estate sector become more positive. Just use the money for other investments and not artificially propping up the share price.


No quite a waste. You remember the Centum policy of no dividends, which they had to give up due to investor pressure? This would now make sense if they had a way to shore up share price - which share buybacks will do. Then they can devote the rest of the cash to building the company rather than paying dividends.

Microsoft played this game for years and benefited both the company and many investors.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Angelica _ann
#34 Posted : Monday, December 02, 2019 11:26:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 10,976

https://www.businessdail...370430-h193gm/index.html
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
target1360
#35 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2019 8:43:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/14/2014
Posts: 279
Location: nairobi
Why is this company ever in the news.Is it a good thing or a bad thing.I have never understood this company-centum.
I find satisfaction in owning great business,not trading them
littledove
#36 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2019 9:17:50 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/1/2014
Posts: 743
Location: sky
[quote=Angelica _ann]
https://www.businessdail...70430-h193gm/index.html[/quote]

According to them they are almost completing first round of investment by exiting 10 out of 15
investments. They will then embark on second round of investment by borrowing afresh.
The question is, how will shareholders benefit from first round bearing in mind they were not paying
dividend and even when they started it was just too little? dont they feel they should pay a special
dividend or if they want to spare cash a heavy bonus?
There are only two emotions in the stock market, fear and hope. The problem is, you hope when you should fear and fear when you should hope
VituVingiSana
#37 Posted : Tuesday, December 03, 2019 9:30:27 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 16,581
Location: Nairobi
littledove wrote:


According to them they are almost completing first round of investment by exiting 10 out of 15
investments. They will then embark on second round of investment by borrowing afresh.
The question is, how will shareholders benefit from first round bearing in mind they were not paying
dividend and even when they started it was just too little? dont they feel they should pay a special
dividend or if they want to spare cash a heavy bonus?

How does a bonus help?
Have you heard of Berkshire Hathaway?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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