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4 Pages«<234
Punguza Mizigo Bill
Lolest!
#61 Posted : Saturday, August 10, 2019 10:15:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,644
Location: Kianjokoma
Why do people here want to assume we have 2 options (BBI & Punguza)?

I'm saying No to both. No to Punguza just coz of disenfranchisement.

We vote once in 5 years. Ideally, we should be voting almost weekly on issues but it's not possible. So we delegate to the 2 houses of parliament to debate & vote.

Giving Lamu the same votes as Nairobi is synonymous with giving each Lamu voter 300 votes in a general election while each Nairobi voter gets 1 vote!

That's the system you want to leave for your kids and grandkids?

Not unless Punguza has a provision for weighted votes in parliament, I can't support it.

You guys go support it. If it passes, be sure in under 10 yrs you'll be regretting.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#62 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 10:56:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,644
Location: Kianjokoma
Why is BBI wrong?

For me it's coz of the lie of ethnic inclusion.

Have a top heavy executive to please 5 tribes(Kikuyu, Luhya, Luo, Kalenjin & Kamba). The rest can go to hell!

We all know that the position of DPM for Musalia did not make Mulembe Nation satisfied. They still wanted the big seat! Neither were Lakesiders OK with PM Raila.

There will always be a big seat that the big tribes will be jostling over even if we move to parliamentary. Call it PM, Chancellor, President, Grand Supreme whatever...so long as it's clear which position calls the shots; WE shall fight for it!
Daily Nation wrote:
President Kenyatta’s wing in Jubilee Party, Raila Odinga’s Orange Democratic Movement, Kalonzo Musyoka’s Wiper Democratic Movement, Musalia Mudavadi’s Amani National Congress, Moses Wetang’ula’s Ford-Kenya, and Gideon Moi’s Kanu are already reading from the same script and are pledging support for the Building Bridges Initiative, which many see as the vehicle to the referendum.

A united front bringing together these key political parties could start a wave that eventually installs a leader at State House in 2022.

The clearest indication yet of how the referendum question could read was revealed last week when women leaders under the Embrace movement, a pillar in the Kieleweke formation of the President Kenyatta-aligned Jubilee camp, said the Executive needs to be expanded to include the position of a prime minister and two deputies.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
2012
#63 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 7:03:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,432
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
Why is BBI wrong?

For me it's coz of the lie of ethnic inclusion.

Have a top heavy executive to please 5 tribes(Kikuyu, Luhya, Luo, Kalenjin & Kamba). The rest can go to hell!

We all know that the position of DPM for Musalia did not make Mulembe Nation satisfied. They still wanted the big seat! Neither were Lakesiders OK with PM Raila.

There will always be a big seat that the big tribes will be jostling over even if we move to parliamentary. Call it PM, Chancellor, President, Grand Supreme whatever...so long as it's clear which position calls the shots; WE shall fight for it!
Daily Nation wrote:
President Kenyatta’s wing in Jubilee Party, Raila Odinga’s Orange Democratic Movement, Kalonzo Musyoka’s Wiper Democratic Movement, Musalia Mudavadi’s Amani National Congress, Moses Wetang’ula’s Ford-Kenya, and Gideon Moi’s Kanu are already reading from the same script and are pledging support for the Building Bridges Initiative, which many see as the vehicle to the referendum.

A united front bringing together these key political parties could start a wave that eventually installs a leader at State House in 2022.

The clearest indication yet of how the referendum question could read was revealed last week when women leaders under the Embrace movement, a pillar in the Kieleweke formation of the President Kenyatta-aligned Jubilee camp, said the Executive needs to be expanded to include the position of a prime minister and two deputies.


BBI to me is wrong because it seeks to address a political agenda and is lead by politicians. It's like hyenas making the rules that will govern the hyenas and the sheep. In my view, there's nothing wrong with this constitution, it's even better than the American constitution. What we need to reform is our justice system so we can actually jail people. And maybe sort the Sanate and National Assembly mess.

Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. Rosa Parks
madhaquer
#64 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 1:23:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 220
Location: Nairobi
https://www.capitalfm.co...-court-lifts-gag-order/

I am interested in seeing how the various counties debate and react to the bill.
For me the reduction in the current over representation is not a deal breaker especially if we get more funds devolved to the wards. I would rather have a powerful MCA with funds than have the current MP's CDF.
kingfisher
#65 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:07:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,788
madhaquer wrote:
https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2019/08/punguza-mizingo-bill-cleared-for-debate-in-counties-as-court-lifts-gag-order/

I am interested in seeing how the various counties debate and react to the bill.
For me the reduction in the current over representation is not a deal breaker especially if we get more funds devolved to the wards. I would rather have a powerful MCA with funds than have the current MP's CDF.

BBI will go to mashinani to tell people not to support punguza mizigo. Money will be needed and will probably be changing hands to sway MCAs, problem is whose money will it be? If the man at the hilltop doesn't provide cash no one else has, and the campaign may flop. If he is interested then it might become some campaign....
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
kingfisher
#66 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 4:14:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,788
Lolest! wrote:
Why do people here want to assume we have 2 options (BBI & Punguza)?

I'm saying No to both. No to Punguza just coz of disenfranchisement.

We vote once in 5 years. Ideally, we should be voting almost weekly on issues but it's not possible. So we delegate to the 2 houses of parliament to debate & vote.

Giving Lamu the same votes as Nairobi is synonymous with giving each Lamu voter 300 votes in a general election while each Nairobi voter gets 1 vote!

That's the system you want to leave for your kids and grandkids?

Not unless Punguza has a provision for weighted votes in parliament, I can't support it.

You guys go support it. If it passes, be sure in under 10 yrs you'll be regretting.


Explain why? Elitism will not suffice with the common voter.
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
limanika
#67 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 4:41:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 1,955
The court was very noncommittal n didn't give clean bill of health to punguza mzigo initiative. So counties can continue debating. Aukot may or may not reach the threshold of 24 counties so barring the initiative at this time is premature. However, take to the bank, he will have his date in court if and when the bill reaches the threshold
Lolest!
#68 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:45:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 11,644
Location: Kianjokoma
kingfisher wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Why do people here want to assume we have 2 options (BBI & Punguza)?

I'm saying No to both. No to Punguza just coz of disenfranchisement.

We vote once in 5 years. Ideally, we should be voting almost weekly on issues but it's not possible. So we delegate to the 2 houses of parliament to debate & vote.

Giving Lamu the same votes as Nairobi is synonymous with giving each Lamu voter 300 votes in a general election while each Nairobi voter gets 1 vote!

That's the system you want to leave for your kids and grandkids?

Not unless Punguza has a provision for weighted votes in parliament, I can't support it.

You guys go support it. If it passes, be sure in under 10 yrs you'll be regretting.


Explain why? Elitism will not suffice with the common voter.

You will wake up to the realisation that your voice has been suppressed by your own vote. Just because people want to vote based on emotions.
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
2012
#69 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 9:46:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,432
Location: Nairobi
There is nothing wrong with our constitution. Politicians want to change it to take power from the people to empower themselves. It's worse than a military regime. All we need is a judiciary that works. Under our constitution, our judiciary is even much stronger than the US but corruption and budget allocation manipulation to the judiciary by the executive and parliament has stifled any advancement. All we need is a working judiciary not constitutional change and if worse comes to worst, we reject BBI and adopt Punguza Mizigo.

Stand for something or you will fall for anything. Today's mighty oak is yesterday's nut that held its ground. Rosa Parks
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