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Algorithm Trading (metals, energies, currencies etc)
shadowinvestor
#21 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2018 3:35:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/13/2012
Posts: 134
Hey-My 2 cents on this

If your algo can really kill it, borrow and leverage the funds for growth, slower but better.

I think most algos designed and are being sold to investors are one-sided(own opinions). As each algo is based on a traders bias- it will do the number crunching but tailor made to operate in one way. Does your algo incorporate machine learning and Big data, can it be applied in multiple products, how has it performed on huge volatility days in terms of position taking and risk management. What is your risk of ruin and how do you handle extended days of loss.
Most important question- trend/scalp and what percentage are exchange fees as a ratio of profitability per trade.
Before you demand $3M put it in a live settup- see the cost structure go wild- trading costs take over a third of profits and magnify losses.

Who is your clearing firm- Any rebates on volume trades and market liquidity provision?
If your Algo ticks all those boxes- dont manage money- lease it out for a fee per month.
S.Mutaga III
#22 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2018 12:59:09 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 749
Dennis2018 wrote:
Hi guys

Anyone who has a SOLID connection or link to a serious high net worth individual looking for scalable and good returns opportunities??

Developed a proprietary algorithm for trading the international futures markets (whatever you think it will trade).

System delivers solid performance (23% compounded - b4 fees (2005-2017)). Asset managers have been compounding at 10% during the same duration. 2018 (Q3) was at 6.07%, NASI Q3 (-12.55%), NSE 20 Q3 (22.38%)

We are currently doing a pilot in a real environment to prove the concept. The system recommended we short eurodollar (US interest rates are increasing). 2 months down the line the position has made a "TIDY" profit (position is still open since there is high probability fed might increase rates in dec). Moreover, system has not recommended we close the position yet hence we are just compounding profit. Another position was short crude oil (@ $61) and crude oil has been tumbling...currently at $54. And other positions

We want to scale since our models are telling us a recession is on the way in the next 1 or 2 years (thats when we make superior returns - 50%+ P.A.). Already the inflated bubble of US global indices is in correction mode and rates are rising.

Any leads on getting an investor who can access at least $3 million??? We have a interesting proposition which we would like to share.

P.S. No snake oil salesmanship here (Got the system and live trades to boot smile smile

Algorithms tend to overtrade. If your return is 23% before fees, then it is nothing to write home about. I wouldn't use it because I think that I can outperform it SIGNIFICANTLY and by trading less often (lower fees). Minus fees I am sure that return goes below 15%. Even a Wanjiku would splash money today at Williamson tea, then go to sleep, and her return of 14% in dividends would be almost guaranteed, unlike yours.

Personally, I would only consider an algorithm if it promised over 150% p.a return before compounding. I believe that I can make about 100% return on a good year at NSE and that 23% (after fees) on a very bad year. The 50% premium is because I would be trusting a system that I didn't create, with my money.
A successful man is not he who gets the best, it is he who makes the best from what he gets.
SamuelWachira
#23 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2018 11:39:49 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/31/2018
Posts: 9
Location: kenya


Thinking Aloud

At first someone might dismiss this as just another of the many newbie’s dream you would come across however one thing sets it apart: the 23% return is reasonable target. Usually a marketing message with words like ‘Algorithm’ ‘international markets’ would be accompanied with promises of 100-1000% . Also the effort to qualify the 23% through a performance comparative analysis is a nice try even though the figures are inaccurate and maybe ambiguous (which asset managers ?)

Wanting $3M with some backrest results is what sounds so so newbie. Hehe lakini I understand ni vile tumezoea pesa ya corruption ikitajwa tajwa Hadi $3M inakaa pocket change. August 2018 I raised $5000 (peanuts in comparison to $3M)and it was hectic to convince the person. This how it went.

First I put $450 to a brokerage account because we know very well no one will invest by showing demo or backtest results.Except our mothers of course. Started fine and hit 30%+ first 6 months.

https://www.myfxbook.com.../avantgarde2018/2405231 . Closed due to ESMA

With 6 months proof of concept, registered in forums to try my luck in getting partners. At www.bogleheads.org, three people got interested. Also in www.aussiestockforums.com got some interest. Hapa Wazua sijawahi jaribu hata. But shock on me, the drilling people will do b4 trusting you with their money. Kwanza drop bracket words like algorithm trading when Interacting with potentials. Simply state what your code is doing. Badala ya international markets sema tu specific currency or those specific metals in your portfolio. Second they care more about the potential downside before the upside. How much can we lose in a day or month or overall? How do you know it is time to quit the system? What methods does the system use to forecast ? MAs, Regressions? Ukienda kutisha na ‘Machine learning’ be ready to explain the rationales in detail. Any interesting dataset ama ni the usual fitting historical data ? Note these are just some complex questions that require modelling to answer. Na by modelling I don’t mean pale MQL4, that can work only to a certain extent. You can easily get pissed off knowing the effort both time and emotional you put in only for more to be demanded.

So I recommend you try interact at Bogleheads.org but you really have to do your homework to attract the kind of money you mention. Hopefully smaller amounts from many people. I doubt hapa Wazua utapata pesa. Utapata the typical Kenyan mistrust ama the cat race mentality '23% iko down, me I can do 100%’ hehe

Good luck to us.

chauhanmohit
#24 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2018 3:28:34 PM
Rank: Hello


Joined: 12/4/2018
Posts: 7
This was all really helpful. Thanks guys
Dennis2018
#25 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 1:46:25 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 16
Location: Nairobi
SamuelWachira wrote:


Thinking Aloud

At first someone might dismiss this as just another of the many newbie’s dream you would come across however one thing sets it apart: the 23% return is reasonable target. Usually a marketing message with words like ‘Algorithm’ ‘international markets’ would be accompanied with promises of 100-1000% . Also the effort to qualify the 23% through a performance comparative analysis is a nice try even though the figures are inaccurate and maybe ambiguous (which asset managers ?)

Wanting $3M with some backrest results is what sounds so so newbie. Hehe lakini I understand ni vile tumezoea pesa ya corruption ikitajwa tajwa Hadi $3M inakaa pocket change. August 2018 I raised $5000 (peanuts in comparison to $3M)and it was hectic to convince the person. This how it went.

First I put $450 to a brokerage account because we know very well no one will invest by showing demo or backtest results.Except our mothers of course. Started fine and hit 30%+ first 6 months.

https://www.myfxbook.com.../avantgarde2018/2405231 . Closed due to ESMA

With 6 months proof of concept, registered in forums to try my luck in getting partners. At www.bogleheads.org, three people got interested. Also in www.aussiestockforums.com got some interest. Hapa Wazua sijawahi jaribu hata. But shock on me, the drilling people will do b4 trusting you with their money. Kwanza drop bracket words like algorithm trading when Interacting with potentials. Simply state what your code is doing. Badala ya international markets sema tu specific currency or those specific metals in your portfolio. Second they care more about the potential downside before the upside. How much can we lose in a day or month or overall? How do you know it is time to quit the system? What methods does the system use to forecast ? MAs, Regressions? Ukienda kutisha na ‘Machine learning’ be ready to explain the rationales in detail. Any interesting dataset ama ni the usual fitting historical data ? Note these are just some complex questions that require modelling to answer. Na by modelling I don’t mean pale MQL4, that can work only to a certain extent. You can easily get pissed off knowing the effort both time and emotional you put in only for more to be demanded.

So I recommend you try interact at Bogleheads.org but you really have to do your homework to attract the kind of money you mention. Hopefully smaller amounts from many people. I doubt hapa Wazua utapata pesa. Utapata the typical Kenyan mistrust ama the cat race mentality '23% iko down, me I can do 100%’ hehe

Good luck to us.


Hi Wachira

Thanks for the info. Well for the 23%...thats before fees but after fees the investor still compounds at around 19%. Guys may dismiss but kenyan asset managers compound at 10% and yet they manage collectively 1 trillion (look at the zamara yearly actuary survey it lists all asset managers with their specific returns)...so am sure we cant do worse.

The algo doesnt do intraday trading so am not worried about actual returns not being in sync with historical returns. The algo holds positions for weeks and even months!! average holding period is around 7 weeks per trade...and yes it is a machine learning algo, so it adapts as market keeps on changing so stop losses and exit positions are dynamic and not static

Well thats impressive if you put $450 and got a 30% return within 6 months. Personally I am well aware nobody will invest with you on historical data, so one must do proof of concept.

Well, I put in $2,000 with a broker 3 months ago and the algo recommended we "short" the eurodollar contract in anticipation of the fed raising interest rates in december 18th. Well, we were closed out on December 7th (friday) at a profit of $587 because the risk sentiment has been changing and equities are starting to have a sell off..and the code mined this info and recommended we close our short position..That comes to around 30% in 3 months since the trade was initiated in September 3rd...

Yes am aware of all the issues you raised such as drawdowns, markets traded, hedging mechanisms, average loss, average profit...etc... Obviously you cant raise all this issues in a blog but we have been talking to some investors and at that point we go into detail on what is the system logic, how performance comes about, how we hedge our trades etc. All in all the key thing for any investor is risk of loss and our algo is such that out of every KES 1, 70cts is invested in t-bills...so at no point can the investor BLOW UP!!Never...

Thanks for the recommendations...I will check on them.

P.S. dont worry i always get people saying they can even do 100% in a year..Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ..If it was so simple Warren Buffet wouldnt be the richest person in the world...He is the greatest investor out there and guess what he attributes his success to:
1. Being born in America
2. having some lucky genes
3. Compound interest. basically his long term compounded return is 20% (50+ years)... He started with $10 million in 1965 and that is what has been compounded at 20% to get the $80+ billion he is worth now. Any serious investor will tell u compounding at 20% in the long term is no joke...So the guys who say they can do 100% dont really understand how money work smile smile
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know, what we do not know; that is true knowledge. - CONFUCIUS
TNT
#26 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 2:27:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 153
Dennis2018 wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:


Thinking Aloud

At first someone might dismiss this as just another of the many newbie’s dream you would come across however one thing sets it apart: the 23% return is reasonable target. Usually a marketing message with words like ‘Algorithm’ ‘international markets’ would be accompanied with promises of 100-1000% . Also the effort to qualify the 23% through a performance comparative analysis is a nice try even though the figures are inaccurate and maybe ambiguous (which asset managers ?)

Wanting $3M with some backrest results is what sounds so so newbie. Hehe lakini I understand ni vile tumezoea pesa ya corruption ikitajwa tajwa Hadi $3M inakaa pocket change. August 2018 I raised $5000 (peanuts in comparison to $3M)and it was hectic to convince the person. This how it went.

First I put $450 to a brokerage account because we know very well no one will invest by showing demo or backtest results.Except our mothers of course. Started fine and hit 30%+ first 6 months.

https://www.myfxbook.com.../avantgarde2018/2405231 . Closed due to ESMA

With 6 months proof of concept, registered in forums to try my luck in getting partners. At www.bogleheads.org, three people got interested. Also in www.aussiestockforums.com got some interest. Hapa Wazua sijawahi jaribu hata. But shock on me, the drilling people will do b4 trusting you with their money. Kwanza drop bracket words like algorithm trading when Interacting with potentials. Simply state what your code is doing. Badala ya international markets sema tu specific currency or those specific metals in your portfolio. Second they care more about the potential downside before the upside. How much can we lose in a day or month or overall? How do you know it is time to quit the system? What methods does the system use to forecast ? MAs, Regressions? Ukienda kutisha na ‘Machine learning’ be ready to explain the rationales in detail. Any interesting dataset ama ni the usual fitting historical data ? Note these are just some complex questions that require modelling to answer. Na by modelling I don’t mean pale MQL4, that can work only to a certain extent. You can easily get pissed off knowing the effort both time and emotional you put in only for more to be demanded.

So I recommend you try interact at Bogleheads.org but you really have to do your homework to attract the kind of money you mention. Hopefully smaller amounts from many people. I doubt hapa Wazua utapata pesa. Utapata the typical Kenyan mistrust ama the cat race mentality '23% iko down, me I can do 100%’ hehe

Good luck to us.


Hi Wachira

Thanks for the info. Well for the 23%...thats before fees but after fees the investor still compounds at around 19%. Guys may dismiss but kenyan asset managers compound at 10% and yet they manage collectively 1 trillion (look at the zamara yearly actuary survey it lists all asset managers with their specific returns)...so am sure we cant do worse.

The algo doesnt do intraday trading so am not worried about actual returns not being in sync with historical returns. The algo holds positions for weeks and even months!! average holding period is around 7 weeks per trade...and yes it is a machine learning algo, so it adapts as market keeps on changing so stop losses and exit positions are dynamic and not static

Well thats impressive if you put $450 and got a 30% return within 6 months. Personally I am well aware nobody will invest with you on historical data, so one must do proof of concept.

Well, I put in $2,000 with a broker 3 months ago and the algo recommended we "short" the eurodollar contract in anticipation of the fed raising interest rates in december 18th. Well, we were closed out on December 7th (friday) at a profit of $587 because the risk sentiment has been changing and equities are starting to have a sell off..and the code mined this info and recommended we close our short position..That comes to around 30% in 3 months since the trade was initiated in September 3rd...

Yes am aware of all the issues you raised such as drawdowns, markets traded, hedging mechanisms, average loss, average profit...etc... Obviously you cant raise all this issues in a blog but we have been talking to some investors and at that point we go into detail on what is the system logic, how performance comes about, how we hedge our trades etc. All in all the key thing for any investor is risk of loss and our algo is such that out of every KES 1, 70cts is invested in t-bills...so at no point can the investor BLOW UP!!Never...

Thanks for the recommendations...I will check on them.

P.S. dont worry i always get people saying they can even do 100% in a year..Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ..If it was so simple Warren Buffet wouldnt be the richest person in the world...He is the greatest investor out there and guess what he attributes his success to:
1. Being born in America
2. having some lucky genes
3. Compound interest. basically his long term compounded return is 20% (50+ years)... He started with $10 million in 1965 and that is what has been compounded at 20% to get the $80+ billion he is worth now. Any serious investor will tell u compounding at 20% in the long term is no joke...So the guys who say they can do 100% dont really understand how money work smile smile


Talk is cheap. Here's an idea, more than KES. 1 billion real money is copying the number one real money trader on Zulutrade. If your algo is as good as you claim, you should be able to get that 1 billion to ditch the number one trader and copy your trades without any problem. Do that and I'll believe your claims. FYI: The aforementioned number one trader is also using an algo. In about an year, his return is about 270% with a 98% win rate.
SamuelWachira
#27 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 3:15:27 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/31/2018
Posts: 9
Location: kenya
come on, can we stick to the topic of how one raise money or connect with a potential client? That will be helpful instead of ooh this or that performance
TNT
#28 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 3:26:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 153
SamuelWachira wrote:
come on, can we stick to the topic of how one raise money or connect with a potential client? That will be helpful instead of ooh this or that performance


You seem to have misunderstood my point, so allow me to rephrase.

There are 250K+ trading algorithms on Zulutrade competing to be the best. If your algorithm can beat those other 250K+ algos, investors will literally throw their money at you.

Currently, investors have thrown more than KES. 1 billion to the best algo on the Zulutrade platform, which is more than 3 times what you want.
Dennis2018
#29 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 3:34:20 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 16
Location: Nairobi
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:


Thinking Aloud

At first someone might dismiss this as just another of the many newbie’s dream you would come across however one thing sets it apart: the 23% return is reasonable target. Usually a marketing message with words like ‘Algorithm’ ‘international markets’ would be accompanied with promises of 100-1000% . Also the effort to qualify the 23% through a performance comparative analysis is a nice try even though the figures are inaccurate and maybe ambiguous (which asset managers ?)

Wanting $3M with some backrest results is what sounds so so newbie. Hehe lakini I understand ni vile tumezoea pesa ya corruption ikitajwa tajwa Hadi $3M inakaa pocket change. August 2018 I raised $5000 (peanuts in comparison to $3M)and it was hectic to convince the person. This how it went.

First I put $450 to a brokerage account because we know very well no one will invest by showing demo or backtest results.Except our mothers of course. Started fine and hit 30%+ first 6 months.

https://www.myfxbook.com.../avantgarde2018/2405231 . Closed due to ESMA

With 6 months proof of concept, registered in forums to try my luck in getting partners. At www.bogleheads.org, three people got interested. Also in www.aussiestockforums.com got some interest. Hapa Wazua sijawahi jaribu hata. But shock on me, the drilling people will do b4 trusting you with their money. Kwanza drop bracket words like algorithm trading when Interacting with potentials. Simply state what your code is doing. Badala ya international markets sema tu specific currency or those specific metals in your portfolio. Second they care more about the potential downside before the upside. How much can we lose in a day or month or overall? How do you know it is time to quit the system? What methods does the system use to forecast ? MAs, Regressions? Ukienda kutisha na ‘Machine learning’ be ready to explain the rationales in detail. Any interesting dataset ama ni the usual fitting historical data ? Note these are just some complex questions that require modelling to answer. Na by modelling I don’t mean pale MQL4, that can work only to a certain extent. You can easily get pissed off knowing the effort both time and emotional you put in only for more to be demanded.

So I recommend you try interact at Bogleheads.org but you really have to do your homework to attract the kind of money you mention. Hopefully smaller amounts from many people. I doubt hapa Wazua utapata pesa. Utapata the typical Kenyan mistrust ama the cat race mentality '23% iko down, me I can do 100%’ hehe

Good luck to us.


Hi Wachira

Thanks for the info. Well for the 23%...thats before fees but after fees the investor still compounds at around 19%. Guys may dismiss but kenyan asset managers compound at 10% and yet they manage collectively 1 trillion (look at the zamara yearly actuary survey it lists all asset managers with their specific returns)...so am sure we cant do worse.

The algo doesnt do intraday trading so am not worried about actual returns not being in sync with historical returns. The algo holds positions for weeks and even months!! average holding period is around 7 weeks per trade...and yes it is a machine learning algo, so it adapts as market keeps on changing so stop losses and exit positions are dynamic and not static

Well thats impressive if you put $450 and got a 30% return within 6 months. Personally I am well aware nobody will invest with you on historical data, so one must do proof of concept.

Well, I put in $2,000 with a broker 3 months ago and the algo recommended we "short" the eurodollar contract in anticipation of the fed raising interest rates in december 18th. Well, we were closed out on December 7th (friday) at a profit of $587 because the risk sentiment has been changing and equities are starting to have a sell off..and the code mined this info and recommended we close our short position..That comes to around 30% in 3 months since the trade was initiated in September 3rd...

Yes am aware of all the issues you raised such as drawdowns, markets traded, hedging mechanisms, average loss, average profit...etc... Obviously you cant raise all this issues in a blog but we have been talking to some investors and at that point we go into detail on what is the system logic, how performance comes about, how we hedge our trades etc. All in all the key thing for any investor is risk of loss and our algo is such that out of every KES 1, 70cts is invested in t-bills...so at no point can the investor BLOW UP!!Never...

Thanks for the recommendations...I will check on them.

P.S. dont worry i always get people saying they can even do 100% in a year..Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ..If it was so simple Warren Buffet wouldnt be the richest person in the world...He is the greatest investor out there and guess what he attributes his success to:
1. Being born in America
2. having some lucky genes
3. Compound interest. basically his long term compounded return is 20% (50+ years)... He started with $10 million in 1965 and that is what has been compounded at 20% to get the $80+ billion he is worth now. Any serious investor will tell u compounding at 20% in the long term is no joke...So the guys who say they can do 100% dont really understand how money work smile smile


Talk is cheap. Here's an idea, more than KES. 1 billion real money is copying the number one real money trader on Zulutrade. If your algo is as good as you claim, you should be able to get that 1 billion to ditch the number one trader and copy your trades without any problem. Do that and I'll believe your claims. FYI: The aforementioned number one trader is also using an algo. In about an year, his return is about 270% with a 98% win rate.


The issue is not the 100% or 270%....The thing is doing it consistently...That is STATISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE..Markets are so RANDOM...Well even our algo in one year it made 77% and another year 60%...but also there is a year it made 8%...The key thing is dont make a loss in a given year; 0 > -ve. But all those returns when you do a compounded return comes to 23% or an average return of 25%....

Even bernie madoff ponzi scheme promised clients a consistent return of only 16% P.A (year in, year out)... Well, we all know that turned out to be a hoaz when the chickens came home to roost...
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know, what we do not know; that is true knowledge. - CONFUCIUS
TNT
#30 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 3:39:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 153
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:


Thinking Aloud

At first someone might dismiss this as just another of the many newbie’s dream you would come across however one thing sets it apart: the 23% return is reasonable target. Usually a marketing message with words like ‘Algorithm’ ‘international markets’ would be accompanied with promises of 100-1000% . Also the effort to qualify the 23% through a performance comparative analysis is a nice try even though the figures are inaccurate and maybe ambiguous (which asset managers ?)

Wanting $3M with some backrest results is what sounds so so newbie. Hehe lakini I understand ni vile tumezoea pesa ya corruption ikitajwa tajwa Hadi $3M inakaa pocket change. August 2018 I raised $5000 (peanuts in comparison to $3M)and it was hectic to convince the person. This how it went.

First I put $450 to a brokerage account because we know very well no one will invest by showing demo or backtest results.Except our mothers of course. Started fine and hit 30%+ first 6 months.

https://www.myfxbook.com.../avantgarde2018/2405231 . Closed due to ESMA

With 6 months proof of concept, registered in forums to try my luck in getting partners. At www.bogleheads.org, three people got interested. Also in www.aussiestockforums.com got some interest. Hapa Wazua sijawahi jaribu hata. But shock on me, the drilling people will do b4 trusting you with their money. Kwanza drop bracket words like algorithm trading when Interacting with potentials. Simply state what your code is doing. Badala ya international markets sema tu specific currency or those specific metals in your portfolio. Second they care more about the potential downside before the upside. How much can we lose in a day or month or overall? How do you know it is time to quit the system? What methods does the system use to forecast ? MAs, Regressions? Ukienda kutisha na ‘Machine learning’ be ready to explain the rationales in detail. Any interesting dataset ama ni the usual fitting historical data ? Note these are just some complex questions that require modelling to answer. Na by modelling I don’t mean pale MQL4, that can work only to a certain extent. You can easily get pissed off knowing the effort both time and emotional you put in only for more to be demanded.

So I recommend you try interact at Bogleheads.org but you really have to do your homework to attract the kind of money you mention. Hopefully smaller amounts from many people. I doubt hapa Wazua utapata pesa. Utapata the typical Kenyan mistrust ama the cat race mentality '23% iko down, me I can do 100%’ hehe

Good luck to us.


Hi Wachira

Thanks for the info. Well for the 23%...thats before fees but after fees the investor still compounds at around 19%. Guys may dismiss but kenyan asset managers compound at 10% and yet they manage collectively 1 trillion (look at the zamara yearly actuary survey it lists all asset managers with their specific returns)...so am sure we cant do worse.

The algo doesnt do intraday trading so am not worried about actual returns not being in sync with historical returns. The algo holds positions for weeks and even months!! average holding period is around 7 weeks per trade...and yes it is a machine learning algo, so it adapts as market keeps on changing so stop losses and exit positions are dynamic and not static

Well thats impressive if you put $450 and got a 30% return within 6 months. Personally I am well aware nobody will invest with you on historical data, so one must do proof of concept.

Well, I put in $2,000 with a broker 3 months ago and the algo recommended we "short" the eurodollar contract in anticipation of the fed raising interest rates in december 18th. Well, we were closed out on December 7th (friday) at a profit of $587 because the risk sentiment has been changing and equities are starting to have a sell off..and the code mined this info and recommended we close our short position..That comes to around 30% in 3 months since the trade was initiated in September 3rd...

Yes am aware of all the issues you raised such as drawdowns, markets traded, hedging mechanisms, average loss, average profit...etc... Obviously you cant raise all this issues in a blog but we have been talking to some investors and at that point we go into detail on what is the system logic, how performance comes about, how we hedge our trades etc. All in all the key thing for any investor is risk of loss and our algo is such that out of every KES 1, 70cts is invested in t-bills...so at no point can the investor BLOW UP!!Never...

Thanks for the recommendations...I will check on them.

P.S. dont worry i always get people saying they can even do 100% in a year..Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ..If it was so simple Warren Buffet wouldnt be the richest person in the world...He is the greatest investor out there and guess what he attributes his success to:
1. Being born in America
2. having some lucky genes
3. Compound interest. basically his long term compounded return is 20% (50+ years)... He started with $10 million in 1965 and that is what has been compounded at 20% to get the $80+ billion he is worth now. Any serious investor will tell u compounding at 20% in the long term is no joke...So the guys who say they can do 100% dont really understand how money work smile smile


Talk is cheap. Here's an idea, more than KES. 1 billion real money is copying the number one real money trader on Zulutrade. If your algo is as good as you claim, you should be able to get that 1 billion to ditch the number one trader and copy your trades without any problem. Do that and I'll believe your claims. FYI: The aforementioned number one trader is also using an algo. In about an year, his return is about 270% with a 98% win rate.


The issue is not the 100% or 270%....The thing is doing it consistently...That is STATISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE..Markets are so RANDOM...Well even our algo in one year it made 77% and another year 60%...but also there is a year it made 8%...The key thing is dont make a loss in a given year; 0 > -ve. But all those returns when you do a compounded return comes to 23% or an average return of 25%....

Even bernie madoff ponzi scheme promised clients a consistent return of only 16% P.A (year in, year out)... Well, we all know that turned out to be a hoaz when the chickens came home to roost...


Like I said, talk is cheap. Let's see practically how well or badly your algo fairs against the other 250K+ similar algos on Zulutrade, or any other social trading platform for that matter. If it emerges the best, I'll believe everything you've just said.

Until then, I'll maintain my view that talk is cheap.

SamuelWachira
#31 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 6:20:56 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/31/2018
Posts: 9
Location: kenya
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url










SamuelWachira
#32 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 6:24:34 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/31/2018
Posts: 9
Location: kenya
TNT
#33 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 7:21:53 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 153
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url





I'm making no assumptions here. The reality is the Zulutrade platform currently holds close to KES. 4 billion of investors money, which means investors trust Zulutrade ranking system.

What you clearly don't understand is how Zulutrade ranking system works, including its metrics.

Still, this is a simple issue. If investors on the Zulutrade platform have invested more than 1 billion with the number one trader on that platform, all you need to do to get that one billion is beat the number one trader. You defeat the king, you become the king and in the process, attract investors in droves.

To me, that is easier than looking for a single investor to pony up $3 million, especially if your algo does what you say it does.
Dennis2018
#34 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 7:25:07 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 16
Location: Nairobi
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url











You put it very well and concise...Applause Applause
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know, what we do not know; that is true knowledge. - CONFUCIUS
Dennis2018
#35 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 7:35:44 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 16
Location: Nairobi
TNT wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url





I'm making no assumptions here. The reality is the Zulutrade platform currently holds close to KES. 4 billion of investors money, which means investors trust Zulutrade ranking system.

What you clearly don't understand is how Zulutrade ranking system works, including its metrics.

Still, this is a simple issue. If investors on the Zulutrade platform have invested more than 1 billion with the number one trader on that platform, all you need to do to get that one billion is beat the number one trader. You defeat the king, you become the king and in the process, attract investors in droves.

To me, that is easier than looking for a single investor to pony up $3 million, especially if your algo does what you say it does.


There is one big assumption you are making...we are all using the SAME TRADING STRATEGY...Different players, different strategies and thats why the first thing any knowledgeable investor will ask you is...Whats your strategy??? Are you long/short equity, market neutral, managed futures, distressed, global macro, equity long only, arbitrage, commodities only, currencies...etc...After that they would like to know...What is your time frame?? Are you a short term trader, swing trader, long term trader...etc... So at no point can you expect our returns to be the same... Moreover, there is a high probability those zulu trade platform their strategies are totally different from mine...I can bet you referring to high frequency trading (HFT)...and my strategy is not HFT, so you cant compare apples and oranges...

As i said different investors look at different things, and as Samuel puts it, its not about returns only...Yeah you can be making 100% return but with a drawdown of 50%...Well to some investors those are red flags for a potential blow up....
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know, what we do not know; that is true knowledge. - CONFUCIUS
TNT
#36 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 7:51:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 153
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url





I'm making no assumptions here. The reality is the Zulutrade platform currently holds close to KES. 4 billion of investors money, which means investors trust Zulutrade ranking system.

What you clearly don't understand is how Zulutrade ranking system works, including its metrics.

Still, this is a simple issue. If investors on the Zulutrade platform have invested more than 1 billion with the number one trader on that platform, all you need to do to get that one billion is beat the number one trader. You defeat the king, you become the king and in the process, attract investors in droves.

To me, that is easier than looking for a single investor to pony up $3 million, especially if your algo does what you say it does.


There is one big assumption you are making...we are all using the SAME TRADING STRATEGY...Different players, different strategies and thats why the first thing any knowledgeable investor will ask you is...Whats your strategy??? Are you long/short equity, market neutral, managed futures, distressed, global macro, equity long only, arbitrage, commodities only, currencies...etc...After that they would like to know...What is your time frame?? Are you a short term trader, swing trader, long term trader...etc... So at no point can you expect our returns to be the same... Moreover, there is a high probability those zulu trade platform their strategies are totally different from mine...I can bet you referring to high frequency trading (HFT)...and my strategy is not HFT, so you cant compare apples and oranges...

As i said different investors look at different things, and as Samuel puts it, its not about returns only...Yeah you can be making 100% return but with a drawdown of 50%...Well to some investors those are red flags for a potential blow up....


I have said there are more than 250K+ trading algorithms on Zuluetrade, so how am I assuming that you're all using the same strategy?

Secondly, Zulutrade has stringent drawdown requirements, capping DD at 33%. Additionally, Zulutrade adheres to EU trading regulations, including the recently enacted margin requirements.

Maybe you should first familiarize yourself with how Zulutrade platform works before you make any more comments regarding the platform.
Dennis2018
#37 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 8:20:49 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 16
Location: Nairobi
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url





I'm making no assumptions here. The reality is the Zulutrade platform currently holds close to KES. 4 billion of investors money, which means investors trust Zulutrade ranking system.

What you clearly don't understand is how Zulutrade ranking system works, including its metrics.

Still, this is a simple issue. If investors on the Zulutrade platform have invested more than 1 billion with the number one trader on that platform, all you need to do to get that one billion is beat the number one trader. You defeat the king, you become the king and in the process, attract investors in droves.

To me, that is easier than looking for a single investor to pony up $3 million, especially if your algo does what you say it does.


There is one big assumption you are making...we are all using the SAME TRADING STRATEGY...Different players, different strategies and thats why the first thing any knowledgeable investor will ask you is...Whats your strategy??? Are you long/short equity, market neutral, managed futures, distressed, global macro, equity long only, arbitrage, commodities only, currencies...etc...After that they would like to know...What is your time frame?? Are you a short term trader, swing trader, long term trader...etc... So at no point can you expect our returns to be the same... Moreover, there is a high probability those zulu trade platform their strategies are totally different from mine...I can bet you referring to high frequency trading (HFT)...and my strategy is not HFT, so you cant compare apples and oranges...

As i said different investors look at different things, and as Samuel puts it, its not about returns only...Yeah you can be making 100% return but with a drawdown of 50%...Well to some investors those are red flags for a potential blow up....


I have said there are more than 250K+ trading algorithms on Zuluetrade, so how am I assuming that you're all using the same strategy?

Secondly, Zulutrade has stringent drawdown requirements, capping DD at 33%. Additionally, Zulutrade adheres to EU trading regulations, including the recently enacted margin requirements.

Maybe you should first familiarize yourself with how Zulutrade platform works before you make any more comments regarding the platform.


Well the zulutrade platform you keep on referring to is for mimicking "FOREX" trading...It is a forex trading platform. As i said before what us we are doing is "FUTURES" trading not Forex... different markets, different strategies and zulu trade does not offer our kind of specialty. Currencies is just one component of futures, we are also talking about energies, stock indices, government bonds, agricultures, and metals. Basically we are talking upwards of 50 markets where the system trades to generate returns....
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know, what we do not know; that is true knowledge. - CONFUCIUS
TNT
#38 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 8:36:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 153
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url





I'm making no assumptions here. The reality is the Zulutrade platform currently holds close to KES. 4 billion of investors money, which means investors trust Zulutrade ranking system.

What you clearly don't understand is how Zulutrade ranking system works, including its metrics.

Still, this is a simple issue. If investors on the Zulutrade platform have invested more than 1 billion with the number one trader on that platform, all you need to do to get that one billion is beat the number one trader. You defeat the king, you become the king and in the process, attract investors in droves.

To me, that is easier than looking for a single investor to pony up $3 million, especially if your algo does what you say it does.


There is one big assumption you are making...we are all using the SAME TRADING STRATEGY...Different players, different strategies and thats why the first thing any knowledgeable investor will ask you is...Whats your strategy??? Are you long/short equity, market neutral, managed futures, distressed, global macro, equity long only, arbitrage, commodities only, currencies...etc...After that they would like to know...What is your time frame?? Are you a short term trader, swing trader, long term trader...etc... So at no point can you expect our returns to be the same... Moreover, there is a high probability those zulu trade platform their strategies are totally different from mine...I can bet you referring to high frequency trading (HFT)...and my strategy is not HFT, so you cant compare apples and oranges...

As i said different investors look at different things, and as Samuel puts it, its not about returns only...Yeah you can be making 100% return but with a drawdown of 50%...Well to some investors those are red flags for a potential blow up....


I have said there are more than 250K+ trading algorithms on Zuluetrade, so how am I assuming that you're all using the same strategy?

Secondly, Zulutrade has stringent drawdown requirements, capping DD at 33%. Additionally, Zulutrade adheres to EU trading regulations, including the recently enacted margin requirements.

Maybe you should first familiarize yourself with how Zulutrade platform works before you make any more comments regarding the platform.


Well the zulutrade platform you keep on referring to is for mimicking "FOREX" trading...It is a forex trading platform. As i said before what us we are doing is "FUTURES" trading not Forex... different markets, different strategies and zulu trade does not offer our kind of specialty. Currencies is just one component of futures, we are also talking about energies, stock indices, government bonds, agricultures, and metals. Basically we are talking upwards of 50 markets where the system trades to generate returns....



You're contradicting yourself. The title of your post reads, " Algorithm Trading (metals, energies, currencies etc)". Now, last time I checked, forex trading meant currency trading. Secondly, you've also talked about selling EUR/USD (a forex pair). Then, you've just said, "..doing is "FUTURES" trading not Forex..."

Anyway, if you're not trading forex, then all I've said is null and void. Good luck finding an investor.
Dennis2018
#39 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 9:19:52 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 16
Location: Nairobi
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url





I'm making no assumptions here. The reality is the Zulutrade platform currently holds close to KES. 4 billion of investors money, which means investors trust Zulutrade ranking system.

What you clearly don't understand is how Zulutrade ranking system works, including its metrics.

Still, this is a simple issue. If investors on the Zulutrade platform have invested more than 1 billion with the number one trader on that platform, all you need to do to get that one billion is beat the number one trader. You defeat the king, you become the king and in the process, attract investors in droves.

To me, that is easier than looking for a single investor to pony up $3 million, especially if your algo does what you say it does.


There is one big assumption you are making...we are all using the SAME TRADING STRATEGY...Different players, different strategies and thats why the first thing any knowledgeable investor will ask you is...Whats your strategy??? Are you long/short equity, market neutral, managed futures, distressed, global macro, equity long only, arbitrage, commodities only, currencies...etc...After that they would like to know...What is your time frame?? Are you a short term trader, swing trader, long term trader...etc... So at no point can you expect our returns to be the same... Moreover, there is a high probability those zulu trade platform their strategies are totally different from mine...I can bet you referring to high frequency trading (HFT)...and my strategy is not HFT, so you cant compare apples and oranges...

As i said different investors look at different things, and as Samuel puts it, its not about returns only...Yeah you can be making 100% return but with a drawdown of 50%...Well to some investors those are red flags for a potential blow up....


I have said there are more than 250K+ trading algorithms on Zuluetrade, so how am I assuming that you're all using the same strategy?

Secondly, Zulutrade has stringent drawdown requirements, capping DD at 33%. Additionally, Zulutrade adheres to EU trading regulations, including the recently enacted margin requirements.

Maybe you should first familiarize yourself with how Zulutrade platform works before you make any more comments regarding the platform.


Well the zulutrade platform you keep on referring to is for mimicking "FOREX" trading...It is a forex trading platform. As i said before what us we are doing is "FUTURES" trading not Forex... different markets, different strategies and zulu trade does not offer our kind of specialty. Currencies is just one component of futures, we are also talking about energies, stock indices, government bonds, agricultures, and metals. Basically we are talking upwards of 50 markets where the system trades to generate returns....



You're contradicting yourself. The title of your post reads, " Algorithm Trading (metals, energies, currencies etc)". Now, last time I checked, forex trading meant currency trading. Secondly, you've also talked about selling EUR/USD (a forex pair). Then, you've just said, "..doing is "FUTURES" trading not Forex..."

Anyway, if you're not trading forex, then all I've said is null and void. Good luck finding an investor.


No contradiction whatsoever. Yes, we are trading currencies but futures data is different from the spot data (forex). Futures are standardized forward contracts which expire after a specified period of time in the future. Futures currencies are based on the spot market (forex), but trade either at a higher price or lower price. For example, the futures price for EUR/USD can trade at a higher price or lower price than the prevailing forex price (spot). As such, you cannot use the spot forex data to trade the futures data. Moreover, futures trade at an exchange, as such unlike the cash market (e.g. forex), where different participants see different prices (depending on the broker), pricing is centralized and all market participants have access to the same wholesale Bid and Ask prices.

With that said you cant use the forex data to trade the futures market...those are two different markets. As such, you need a broker who has access to futures markets and such brokers are rare due to tighter regulation and gaining access to exchanges. Zulu trade is a copy trading platform or maybe a forex broker (fewer transparency and regulations....That is why you have heard about brokers trading against you since most trades are not routed to the market but the broker takes the opposite side of your trade...In that case, it is in the brokers best interest to manipulate your trades so that you loose...I believe you have heard of issues like markets/ screen freezing or being filled at the bottom or high)...You don't get such issues in futures since all trades are routed through to the exchange.

I hope that clarification is clear on why the forex data and futures data are different even though you are trading the same market.
To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know, what we do not know; that is true knowledge. - CONFUCIUS
TNT
#40 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2018 10:14:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/22/2009
Posts: 153
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
Dennis2018 wrote:
TNT wrote:
SamuelWachira wrote:
TNT suggestion is

1.Be ranked number one in Zulu trade or such other third party sites
2.Have performances of triple digit performance annually (100%+)
3.Investors will throw money at you.

Without turning this topic to discussion about performances-real or fake, sustainable or not, I think it is a possible route to raise money only that it is very idealistic(overly optimistic or lacks practicality).

Because
Though you might top in Zulutrade, we know the probability is quite low. However, that does not translate to a 23% performance is not worthy of an investor’s attention. Yaani, Airtel bado wako na customers hata kama Safaricom are so dominant. In this case, if Dennis can pull that 23% it is definitely worthy by all standards regardless of kama kuna mtu amefanya 200% or whatever.

That brings me to the an assumption you are making: Having a very high performance is equals to getting very many investors. Extra high performance numbers actually indicate bad things –scam, blowups. Side note: Third party sites like Zulutrade are Good for instance to verify performances though there is so much negative to write about them on how they negatively affect your trading process. Volume monthly limits, you have to use brokers of their own choice, and a bunch of other rules. These rules are designed for their business models and not your trading welfare. Wrote matlab code for Quantiacs.com and the rules literally meant throwing away my edge so as to fit in.
Performance is the contentious one. As much as performance is the bread and butter of trading/investing activities there is little value to be gained by discussing on performances in light of the raising money question. But I have Designed a simple poll regarding the relation of raising money and promised/historical performance and probably we can settle using the results, feel free to fill it and I will share the results here : https://docs.google.com/...b1g/viewform?usp=pp_url





I'm making no assumptions here. The reality is the Zulutrade platform currently holds close to KES. 4 billion of investors money, which means investors trust Zulutrade ranking system.

What you clearly don't understand is how Zulutrade ranking system works, including its metrics.

Still, this is a simple issue. If investors on the Zulutrade platform have invested more than 1 billion with the number one trader on that platform, all you need to do to get that one billion is beat the number one trader. You defeat the king, you become the king and in the process, attract investors in droves.

To me, that is easier than looking for a single investor to pony up $3 million, especially if your algo does what you say it does.


There is one big assumption you are making...we are all using the SAME TRADING STRATEGY...Different players, different strategies and thats why the first thing any knowledgeable investor will ask you is...Whats your strategy??? Are you long/short equity, market neutral, managed futures, distressed, global macro, equity long only, arbitrage, commodities only, currencies...etc...After that they would like to know...What is your time frame?? Are you a short term trader, swing trader, long term trader...etc... So at no point can you expect our returns to be the same... Moreover, there is a high probability those zulu trade platform their strategies are totally different from mine...I can bet you referring to high frequency trading (HFT)...and my strategy is not HFT, so you cant compare apples and oranges...

As i said different investors look at different things, and as Samuel puts it, its not about returns only...Yeah you can be making 100% return but with a drawdown of 50%...Well to some investors those are red flags for a potential blow up....


I have said there are more than 250K+ trading algorithms on Zuluetrade, so how am I assuming that you're all using the same strategy?

Secondly, Zulutrade has stringent drawdown requirements, capping DD at 33%. Additionally, Zulutrade adheres to EU trading regulations, including the recently enacted margin requirements.

Maybe you should first familiarize yourself with how Zulutrade platform works before you make any more comments regarding the platform.


Well the zulutrade platform you keep on referring to is for mimicking "FOREX" trading...It is a forex trading platform. As i said before what us we are doing is "FUTURES" trading not Forex... different markets, different strategies and zulu trade does not offer our kind of specialty. Currencies is just one component of futures, we are also talking about energies, stock indices, government bonds, agricultures, and metals. Basically we are talking upwards of 50 markets where the system trades to generate returns....



You're contradicting yourself. The title of your post reads, " Algorithm Trading (metals, energies, currencies etc)". Now, last time I checked, forex trading meant currency trading. Secondly, you've also talked about selling EUR/USD (a forex pair). Then, you've just said, "..doing is "FUTURES" trading not Forex..."

Anyway, if you're not trading forex, then all I've said is null and void. Good luck finding an investor.


No contradiction whatsoever. Yes, we are trading currencies but futures data is different from the spot data (forex). Futures are standardized forward contracts which expire after a specified period of time in the future. Futures currencies are based on the spot market (forex), but trade either at a higher price or lower price. For example, the futures price for EUR/USD can trade at a higher price or lower price than the prevailing forex price (spot). As such, you cannot use the spot forex data to trade the futures data. Moreover, futures trade at an exchange, as such unlike the cash market (e.g. forex), where different participants see different prices (depending on the broker), pricing is centralized and all market participants have access to the same wholesale Bid and Ask prices.

With that said you cant use the forex data to trade the futures market...those are two different markets. As such, you need a broker who has access to futures markets and such brokers are rare due to tighter regulation and gaining access to exchanges. Zulu trade is a copy trading platform or maybe a forex broker (fewer transparency and regulations....That is why you have heard about brokers trading against you since most trades are not routed to the market but the broker takes the opposite side of your trade...In that case, it is in the brokers best interest to manipulate your trades so that you loose...I believe you have heard of issues like markets/ screen freezing or being filled at the bottom or high)...You don't get such issues in futures since all trades are routed through to the exchange.

I hope that clarification is clear on why the forex data and futures data are different even though you are trading the same market.


Any forex broker that offers MT4 or MT5 platform, offers CFD/Futures contracts, so futures contracts are not as special as you insinuate. However, for me, futures contacts are inherently more risky than spot forex because of the fixed price and fixed expiry date. It's like trading binary options.
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