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Lands office
Andre2000
#1 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 10:44:33 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/25/2017
Posts: 13
Location: London UK
Hi,

I am in the process of purchasing an apartment in Hurlingham, however for whatever reason I cannot get the search complete or in my opinion the correct search completed.


Question

1, With regards to apartments does the file pertaining to an apartment block have all the files for that block in the same folder so if there are 50 apartments it technically would contain 50 files? reason I ask is a clerk sent a search but for the wrong apartment ( which physically exists) saying that the the apartment search is for one that I am purchasing, yet has a different building number/letter.

I am not from Kenya though my wife and son are Kenyan so any advise greatly appreciated.

BTW I have had 2 clerks + an worker at the lands office trying to locate this, I am not convinced that the file I have is one and the same apartment I am buying.

Thanks

Andrew
wukan
#2 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 11:28:58 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 867
How are you purchasing an apartment without a lawyer? Using clerks and lands office guys is cheap and cheap is expensive. Trust me
Andre2000
#3 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 11:45:07 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/25/2017
Posts: 13
Location: London UK
wukan wrote:
How are you purchasing an apartment without a lawyer? Using clerks and lands office guys is cheap and cheap is expensive. Trust me


Lawyers/advocates are doing this. FYI 2 of the biggest law firms in Nairobi. The clerks work for the firms. I am just not happy with the result in that it does not accurately name the apartment building and number though it's on the same compound. IE; Right apartment number wrong block.

The question still stands.

Thanks for any insight.

Andrew
Andre2000
#4 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 6:40:22 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/25/2017
Posts: 13
Location: London UK
All sorted & deposit paid.

The 1st search shown the wrong apartment.

cheers

Andrew
Andre2000
#5 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 11:34:55 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/25/2017
Posts: 13
Location: London UK
It has taken over 1 year now to get to the stage where all the correct documents have gone to the Lands office via my Advocate which was delivered in May 2018 this year.

My advocate is stating no properties are being registered at this time at the Nairobi Lands offices.

Is this correct? Are the registration of properties being stalled in Nairobi.

It is taking far too long for such a simple task.

Any insight would be appreciated.



obiero
#6 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 11:43:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 10,658
Location: nairobi
Andre2000 wrote:
It has taken over 1 year now to get to the stage where all the correct documents have gone to the Lands office via my Advocate which was delivered in May 2018 this year.

My advocate is stating no properties are being registered at this time at the Nairobi Lands offices.

Is this correct? Are the registration of properties being stalled in Nairobi.

It is taking far too long for such a simple task.

Any insight would be appreciated.




The registry was closed temporarily in May 2018 for about two weeks.. It resumed long ago
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MugundaMan
#7 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 5:09:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 930
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Andre2000 wrote:
It has taken over 1 year now to get to the stage where all the correct documents have gone to the Lands office via my Advocate which was delivered in May 2018 this year.

My advocate is stating no properties are being registered at this time at the Nairobi Lands offices.

Is this correct? Are the registration of properties being stalled in Nairobi.

It is taking far too long for such a simple task.

Any insight would be appreciated.





@Andre2000,

A few questions first;
a) Does the unit have sectional title under the Sectional Properties Act (1987)?
b) If yes, was the search you mention on the specific title/certificate of lease to the unit you paid a deposit for?
c) Did the mother title of the development have more than a 45 year lease left on it (if it wasn't freehold)?

The SPA (1987) was being reviewed several months ago, to remove the many problems that developers had been dealing with. Not sure if the updated law was passed. Wazoo conveyancing lawyers should be able to update us on this. Perhaps this is what your lawyer meant when he said registration of (sectional?) properties has been put on hold. Usually when such drastic changes in existing law are about to take place developers adopt a wait-and-see approach with titles.

On the other hand I hope your advocates are not pulling a con job on you, but I highly doubt this. Delays in the R.E. industry in Kenya are common. I know someone who parted with a cool 25m on a property many months ago and is still waiting for sectional title. Having patience in this country is key.

"The best investment on earth is earth" **Target 1000**
Andre2000
#8 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 5:26:08 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/25/2017
Posts: 13
Location: London UK
[/quote]

@Andre2000,

A few questions first;
a) Does the unit have sectional title under the Sectional Properties Act (1987)?
b) If yes, was the search you mention on the specific title/certificate of lease to the unit you paid a deposit for?
c) Did the mother title of the development have more than a 45 year lease left on it (if it wasn't freehold)?

The SPA (1987) was being reviewed several months ago, to remove the many problems that developers had been dealing with. Not sure if the updated law was passed. Wazoo conveyancing lawyers should be able to update us on this. Perhaps this is what your lawyer meant when he said registration of (sectional?) properties has been put on hold. Usually when such drastic changes in existing law are about to take place developers adopt a wait-and-see approach with titles.

On the other hand I hope your advocates are not pulling a con job on you, but I highly doubt this. Delays in the R.E. industry in Kenya are common. I know someone who parted with a cool 25m on a property many months ago and is still waiting for sectional title. Having patience in this country is key.

[/quote]

Hi,

Thanks for your response:

a, I believe so, although am not sure I 100% understand the question. There are a number of apartments on the site which were built just after 2000 Also the purchase come with a share for the plot. Obviously that specific share is divided by the number pf apartments. I do not have mine as yet as I need the deeds to complete.

b, Yes It has been paid for in full as has the stamp duty. Basically the Lands Office has everything required and has done since May.

c, In fact the lease has nearly 980 or so years left. Peppercorn rent I believe. I do understand the changes to the new constitution re 100 year leases.


I am told by the Advocate that there are many registrations not going through for some reason which is not really clear. As a GOV institution surely they have an obligation to the law?

Andrew

MugundaMan
#9 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 6:00:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 930
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Andre2000 wrote:


Hi,

Thanks for your response:

a, I believe so, although am not sure I 100% understand the question. There are a number of apartments on the site which were built just after 2000 Also the purchase come with a share for the plot. Obviously that specific share is divided by the number pf apartments. I do not have mine as yet as I need the deeds to complete.

b, Yes It has been paid for in full as has the stamp duty. Basically the Lands Office has everything required and has done since May.

c, In fact the lease has nearly 980 or so years left. Peppercorn rent I believe. I do understand the changes to the new constitution re 100 year leases.


I am told by the Advocate that there are many registrations not going through for some reason which is not really clear. As a GOV institution surely they have an obligation to the law?

Andrew



Andrew,
If you still have a copy of the document you did a search on, what does it say?
Is it a Title deed? Grant? Certificate of Lease? Allotment letter etc?
From your description (shares allocated per apartment for common areas) Sounds to me like you are to receive title under the SPA.
However if they sold it to you under Registered Titles Act (RTA) wherein they just assign apartment unit numbers as sub leases under the master lease of the original title, then that is a different animal altogether.
Not sure what the delay is all about but as I said, delays here are not unusual so looks like you have no cause to worry if all documents have been lodged with the relevant authorities. The Law here as you know by now moves veery veery slowly.

"The best investment on earth is earth" **Target 1000**
Andre2000
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 2:30:05 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/25/2017
Posts: 13
Location: London UK
[/quote]

Andrew,
If you still have a copy of the document you did a search on, what does it say?
Is it a Title deed? Grant? Certificate of Lease? Allotment letter etc?
From your description (shares allocated per apartment for common areas) Sounds to me like you are to receive title under the SPA.
However if they sold it to you under Registered Titles Act (RTA) wherein they just assign apartment unit numbers as sub leases under the master lease of the original title, then that is a different animal altogether.
Not sure what the delay is all about but as I said, delays here are not unusual so looks like you have no cause to worry if all documents have been lodged with the relevant authorities. The Law here as you know by now moves veery veery slowly.

[/quote]

Hi,

I do have copies of all the documents.

On the original title it states 'Assignment Of Lease' followed by an apartment number. Then Land reference Number together with 1 share in apartments LTD

(Apartments being the name of the apartments) omitted for obvious reasons.

I also have the original search which states the same LR number with the same Register Vol/Folio/file which correspond to the original lease I received from the former owners.

Hope this helps

Andrew
MugundaMan
#11 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:19:04 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 930
Location: Future Dustbowl Citizen
Andre2000 wrote:


Hi,

I do have copies of all the documents.

On the original title it states 'Assignment Of Lease' followed by an apartment number. Then Land reference Number together with 1 share in apartments LTD

(Apartments being the name of the apartments) omitted for obvious reasons.

I also have the original search which states the same LR number with the same Register Vol/Folio/file which correspond to the original lease I received from the former owners.

Hope this helps

Andrew


Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the info. Helps a lot!
Looks like the property was registered under RTA and not under the SPA, because it is an assigned sub-lease to an apartment number. Meaning the seller would have to get consent of the management company before the transfer is done. If everything has been done and the documentation lodged at the lands ministry, you should be fine despite the delays. Again, if your lawyers are full of integrity, (which is a good thing) it is expected it will take longer because the bribe takers at lands might decide to sit on your file a little bit more than usual just because their palms have not been greased smile. Regardless of the cause of delay I do not think you have anything to worry about and you should get your title eventually.
"The best investment on earth is earth" **Target 1000**
Andre2000
#12 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2018 4:28:15 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 9/25/2017
Posts: 13
Location: London UK
Hi MugundaMan,

Thanks for your insight. It does help a lot to have an independent view.

Purchasing property can always have difficulties no matter which country, however In the UK I would say that the registration with Lands is a very straight forward process once all the correct documents from all parties have been signed and verified.

Any corrupt officials would face much stiffer penalties than normal non government roles. as they are looked on to uphold the law especially if they work as civil servants. They are far from perfect in the UK though as there is a lot of bureaucracy.


I guess the old saying 'patience is a virtue' Is especially relevant in dealing with officials in Kenya.

All the best

Andrew
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